2cy Falco sp. - Hobby or Eleonora's? - Bulgaria (1 Viewer)

[Teodor Trifonov]

Hello everyone,

we got this cool falcon today but couldn't ID it conclusively - right now we're stuck between Hobby 2cy and Eleonora's 2cy, with characters pointing towards both. While searching for the ID we kind of found out identification of the birds in this age group isn't really easy and we would be glad for any help and opinions from people with more experience than us. Thanks a lot in advance!!

Location is Sofia, 06.08.2021, which would be untypical for Eleonora's. Eye ring was wide and grey, pointing towards it, together with larger size (as far as we could judge), obvious rufous in tail, white on tertials. Head marking is of Hobby though and seeing how variable the two species can be we thought best to check with experts.

Cheers,
Teo

 

[Butty]

Thing is... it has/they have face-pattern which is right for hobby (upward extension of white to rear of ear-coverts) and wrong for Eleonora's falcon.

 

[Teodor Trifonov]

Thing is... it has/they have face-pattern which is right for hobby (upward extension of white to rear of ear-coverts) and wrong for Eleonora's falcon.

Exactly, but then we found this ID-ed bird here (Eleonora’s Falcon. 2cy.), which has practically the same pattern, and we went back to the drawing board. I don't have any experience with the moult these two species go through in their second year, so I thought best to ask.

 

[Butty]

ID-ed bird here (Eleonora’s Falcon. 2cy.)

Mis-ID-ed bird? Pass

 

[Sangahyando]

Proportions are wrong for Hobby IMO (lanky frame, large bill, smallish head, ...). Also, notice darker underwing coverts in the second flight pic. So, Eleonora's for me.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

On the basis that they are not Hobby’s, Eleonoras for me.

 

[tconzemi]

Agree with Sangahyando that proportions are not good for Hobby, furthemore rather broad light bars in tail, no unmarked central tail feathers, huge lidring and as the very dark underwing coverts I think too it is an Eleonora's. Also second cal year Hobby should be more advanced in moult

 

[Butty]

So... Is this face-pattern feature really worth, umm, nothing?

 

[THE_FERN]

So... Is this face-pattern feature really worth, umm, nothing?

dunno. but have to say that massive blue eye ring on 7206 doesn't look like any hobby I've seen

 

[tconzemi]

So... Is this face-pattern feature really worth, umm, nothing?

It's so important in adult birds but not 2 cy birds, this paper from Andrea Corso helps and gives some more hints (tertials) Eleonora’s Falcon: Easy or Difficult?

 

[Teodor Trifonov]

Thanks everyone, after I read the paper it does tip towards Eleonora's! If someone else sees the bird again I'll check if they made better photos and post them here.

Cheers
Teo

 

[Andy Hurley]

I think I see reddish feathers down near where they should be in Hobby. Further, isn't Eleanora's dirty brown in juv, rusty brown all over in adult male on the chest?
Eleanora's were not on the Bulgaria list in 2015 when I visited the country, or on avibase today.

 

[tconzemi]

I think I see reddish feathers down near where they should be in Hobby.

Down at the belly and undertail coverts? Like in Eleonora's and Hobby?

Eleonora's Falcon - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

 

[Andy Hurley]

Down at the belly and undertail coverts? Like in Eleonora's and Hobby?

Eleonora's Falcon - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

Yes , but doesn't the Eleanora's rusty feather extend upwards, whereas in photo 7 they are limited, more like Hobby? If it is an Eleanora's, it should be reported to the Bulgarian Birding authorities? I don't know how to contact them.

 

[tconzemi]

Yes , but doesn't the Eleanora's rusty feather extend upwards, whereas in photo 7 they are limited, more like Hobby?

Andy, these second cal year birds are extremely variable in body moult and can look strange at moments. And sec cal year Hobby and Eleonora's is a pitfall and not straightforward at all, you need to look at all the characters

 

[Sangahyando]

Thanks everyone, after I read the paper it does tip towards Eleonora's! If someone else sees the bird again I'll check if they made better photos and post them here.

Cheers
Teo

Better pictures are always nice, but the ones you have are good enough for a clear ID in this case.

 

[Scridifer]

I think I see reddish feathers down near where they should be in Hobby. Further, isn't Eleanora's dirty brown in juv, rusty brown all over in adult male on the chest?
Eleanora's were not on the Bulgaria list in 2015 when I visited the country, or on avibase today.

Andy, Eleanora's is on the Bulgarian List as an accidental/irregular visitor with an average of fewer than 5 sightings per year. There have been a couple of sightings recently.

Chris

 

[Andy Hurley]

Andy, Eleanora's is on the Bulgarian List as an accidental/irregular visitor with an average of fewer than 5 sightings per year. There have been a couple of sightings recently.

Chris

Thanks Chris. I couldn't find it on Avibase.

 

[Scridifer]

Thanks Chris. I couldn't find it on Avibase.

Sadly I've been unable to find it in Bulgaria so far!

Chris

 

[Andy Hurley]

Andy, these second cal year birds are extremely variable in body moult and can look strange at moments. And sec cal year Hobby and Eleonora's is a pitfall and not straightforward at all, you need to look at all the characters

Thanks very much Tom. With your input and that of Chris, I can now accept that Eleanora's is more probable than Hobby. In my own limited experience, I have photographed quite a few Eleanora's on Dragonera and Hobby in several countries, I have never seen an Eleanora's with such a pale upperbelly and chest. The concensus on this thread is leaning towards Eleanora's, which on this forum, tends to be a good indication of what's what.