Renze de Vries
Well-known member
Thanks, very good!
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6 January 2022 - New Leica announcement (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fmarinai
- Start date
Conndomat
United States of Europe
Paul, I don't think that Leica and its models are still competitive with Zeiss or even Swarovski.
The Noctivid is the only high-end binoculars from Leica, the UV have been on the market for a long time, the 7x42, 8x50 and 10x42 still fit for eyeglasses users, with the others it is quite tight or does not fit at all!
The UV are small and compact but that is no longer a compelling advantage these days, the pocket binoculars are getting better and better, the optics of the Zeiss 8 / 10x25 are not noticeably worse than a UV 8 / 10x32, but even smaller, more manageable and lighter and also has enough pupil distance for eyeglasses users, so why should i buy a UV 8x32 that is also much more expensive?
The retrovids are more of an homage to the nostalgic or die-hard Leica fans, they will not convince a Zeiss or Swarovski lover, especially since they are more like good-weather binoculars.
I think Leica is losing ground more and more, the manufacturer is too slow and conservative with its products, just a wide range of products without finding enough buyers is just not enough in the long term.
It would probably not be a big loss for Leica if they could no longer keep up with binoculars in the medium term, but it would be a real pity for us users.
Andreas
Loud Green Man
Well-known member
Spot on and it only took 137 posts to arrive at this key consideration! Almost a case of “move on - nothing to see here” for birders!
Why try to convince yourself this could and should be a bin for birders unless you simply must record how close your fieldcraft enables you to get to each sighting?
You only need to look at Leica’s recent investment in rifle scope development to understand their direction of travel.
LGM
Paultricounty
Well-known member
I hear you. it’s a very competitive market for high end binoculars and as you stated, optics are a small part of Leica. I also agree with you about the Retovids. The pockets haven’t really worked for me, there’s just something missing in them.
As far as my answer to why you should buy a UVHD+ in 8 x 32, is because they are delicious 😋.
Soon very possibly they will be gone and everybody will be trying to buy them on the used market. Just like now with people who wanna buy BN’s, FL’s and SLC’s 😃✌🏼
henry link
Well-known member
Hi Paul,
I'm not sure I'm following your point, but as it happens 389ft at 1000 yards is just about the lowest FOV I'm personally willing to accept in an 8x binocular (about 58º true AFOV) and then only of there is something else unusually good about it (and I don't mean that it's unusually delicious).
If the 8x32 Geovid's 7º FOV spec is correct then the resulting 367.5 ft at 1000 yards just wouldn't make the cut. Leica needs to clear up the discrepancy in the FOV specs.
Henry
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Paultricounty
Well-known member
It was a bad attempt at sarcasm, sorry. I was pertaining to the complaint about how bad the the FOV is on the Geovid pro and just showing that same complaint can be made about the very popular UVHD 8x42. To me is berely acceptable. It was one of the reasons I almost didn’t buy it and now that I have the Noctivids it’s being sold or traded.
Thank you.
Paul
Conndomat
United States of Europe
But why should I buy binoculars where I can only see part of the FOV, which is not very large anyway?
There are enough alternatives that are also delicious!
I don't know what it's like in the USA but there are countless offers from BA / BN or FL that are available for a bargain.
Do you have any information that Leica is planning to discontinue its UV series and how will the gap be closed?
By the way, I use the UV 7x42 HD + myself.
Andreas
But Birdforumites are so argumentative they've still managed to generate 9 pages of contentious ruminations on the future of Leica out of it.
I do own a range-finder because I used to be a field biologist, and it's something that you might actually use for doing line transects. But for birding? No. And going to the expense and hassle of having one built into your binoculars, if they're not primarily used for hunting? Pointless, even for an optics-o-phile like me.
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litebeam
Well-known member
Yep, I wouldn't expect this optic to be deemed a winner by birding purists here, it's justifiably heavier, more complicated and more expensive.
Frankly, I'd be shocked to see it embraced by those who would neither use it nor purchase it.
I give Leica credit for this endeavor!
Paultricounty
Well-known member
Hi Andreas,
I was just responding to your question as to why somebody would buy a 8x32 UVHD. It wasn’t meant as an answer why you should buy one. 7x42 is such a sweet spot in the whole line, with better eye relief, better FOV, larger oculars, that’s a keeper. If I didn’t already have 7x42 Swaro Habicht and the 7x35 Retrovids I’d been all over those. And probably would use them a lot more than the two I mentioned.
I also see a lot of the BN, BA and the FL’s here as well and there all over eBay. Same with Nikon EDG’s. What I don’t see a lot of is the Nikon SE’s. But that’s another bird.
I do not have any info concerning about Leica planning on discontinuing the Ultravids.
Thank you
Conndomat
United States of Europe
Hello Paul,
The UV and Noctivids are also very nice binoculars!
Let's hope that Leica will continue to build good binoculars and not leave the field to Zeiss and Swarovski "without a fight", it would be very pity ...
Andreas
Had my hands on one today. From an optics perspective I was a bit underwhelmed. There was an Ultravid HD+ 8x32 just feet away that I was able to compare it to as well as most of Leica’s full line of binoculars. All were various levels of from a little to obviously sharper, brighter, better colors, etc. The Geovid PRO is clearly tailored to the hunting crowd and it’s being marketed that way.
Personally would have been much more excited by an updated Ultravid, Noctovid or some new binocular design. But cannot really say that I’m all that surprised. Leica has long been known for premium laser-Rangefinding optics, and that market has recently become much more competitive and nuanced. The current trend is to pack the smallest and most accurate ballistic rangefinder with the most augmenting technology - atmospherics, mapping, Bluetooth, etc. But it kind of reminds me of my last automotive test drive - the sales rep was completely focused on tech, and was stunned when when I was disappointed with the driving dynamics.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
Alphafan,
that’s a great analogy. You buy a car to drive not to surf the web or to send text messages. When I bought my car last year it was all about the performance and I didn’t even know half the Technology it had.
I really didn’t expect much optically from the Geovid pro. I kind of was expecting it to be more of a hunters device rather than a birder or nature observer.
As Andreas said, let’s hope Leica continues to be a player in the high end optics market and not leave Zeiss and Swarovski to completely take over.
It would be a shame considering how luxurious Leica builds binoculars. Every day I pick up these Noctivids I’m more and more impressed.
Paul
So now 2k and up binoculars are no longer high end?
Why isn't it a compelling advantage to want the largest exit pupil available in the smallest, lightest package available? I could have bought the 8x20 by this rationale and saved quite a bit over the 8x32, but in the end they're two separate tools capable of being used for the same purpose, albeit with different results when it comes to low light. Given the choice between 2.5mm and 4mm exit pupil, I choose the latter.
Conndomat
United States of Europe
The UV is certainly still an alpha glass, but it's like Swarovski, since the NL was around, the EL has moved into the second row.
The alpha lens from Leica is the Noctivid and it is "only" available in 8 / 10x42.
What does Swarovski do?
8 / 10x32, 8x42, 10x42, 12x42, a whole series and even Zeiss has meanwhile brought the SF 32 onto the market.
The advantage of this small Ultravid is only available to people who can use it, many cannot for the reasons mentioned above!
I would rather use a Zeiss 8x25 than a UV 8x32, which is three times as expensive, because I have more of that.
Andreas
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
We have investigated the Leica 8x42 rangefinder with Perger prisms (for those who are interested it is published on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor en, not very logical, but so is life, it is at the end of the test of the new Zeiss 8x32 SF and Swarovski NL pure 8x32.
I like the looks of this 8x42 Leica rangefinder: beautiful instrument to look at and to look through. The optical performace is excellent to my taste despite the weight and I like it even more than the Noctivid 8x42, since for my hands handling feels much better, but I admit, that is very personal. As far as light transmission is concerned: Leica did well, but you can look at the spectra yourself.
So I expect similar experiences with the new 32 mm Leica rangefinders and I am also curious how they perform in comparison with the new 8x32 and 10x32 GPO rangefinders, which seem even more compac and will be quite a bit less expensive as the new 32 mm Leica rangefinders. Time and research wil learn.
Gijs van Ginkel
I like the looks of this 8x42 Leica rangefinder: beautiful instrument to look at and to look through. The optical performace is excellent to my taste despite the weight and I like it even more than the Noctivid 8x42, since for my hands handling feels much better, but I admit, that is very personal. As far as light transmission is concerned: Leica did well, but you can look at the spectra yourself.
So I expect similar experiences with the new 32 mm Leica rangefinders and I am also curious how they perform in comparison with the new 8x32 and 10x32 GPO rangefinders, which seem even more compac and will be quite a bit less expensive as the new 32 mm Leica rangefinders. Time and research wil learn.
Gijs van Ginkel
"Hunting' is a huge market for all binocular brands so this new Leica surprise shouldn't be a surprise. In addition, Leica is most likely selecting their binocular updates based upon what they view as the best market to compete in, given what Leica already has, and what their competitors have. Thus the retro 7x35, this new Geovid etc....
If I was Leica there is no reason for a 32x in the Noctivid line-up as they already have a compact, Alpha in the Ultravid. The compactness alone separates it from Swaro and Zeiss. Why follow Swaro's path and screw up the EL (or Ultravid) line just to bring on the NL (Noctivid 32x) with only slightly better stats?
Remember, the properties of physics can only take optics so far and I feel the top three have pretty much hit upon that optical line.
But...while Swaro and Zeiss place a ton of R&D in regular binoculars, taking it about as far up that 'physic' line as possible, I bet Leica is looking towards the future and that future is in digital binoculars. Did you see where Leica has a Leica Phone out now? We all know Leica's reputation for cameras and lens. So you see where Leica is going?
Now, push that forward a bit and see how Leica sits in the lead position regarding the upcoming digital binocular revolution. Leica has the cameras line-up down. They are working with the Phone AND wifi, PLUS camera PLUS apps etc. The next step is to combine all of that and push forward with the digital binocular. Leica is by far and away, in the best position to do just that. Swaro would have to partner with someone as well as Zeiss but Leica is all in-house. The next nearest competitor might be Nikon.
Now Swaro has made some inroads into this with the 8x25 monocular but it is far from a professional birding binocular/scope. (Swarovski 8x25 dG). So you can see where things are headed but I feel that Leica is just in the best position. This Swaro is just a step but it is too small, a monocular etc etc and I bet the optics are just so-so. Lots of room to improve upon here and Leica can do it.
I love my analog Leica cameras....I love my Noctivid and Ultravid and Trinovids..... so most likely my preferences would not welcome in the digital binocular but my age is not the target age, it is the next generation of younger birders etc...
If I was Leica there is no reason for a 32x in the Noctivid line-up as they already have a compact, Alpha in the Ultravid. The compactness alone separates it from Swaro and Zeiss. Why follow Swaro's path and screw up the EL (or Ultravid) line just to bring on the NL (Noctivid 32x) with only slightly better stats?
Remember, the properties of physics can only take optics so far and I feel the top three have pretty much hit upon that optical line.
But...while Swaro and Zeiss place a ton of R&D in regular binoculars, taking it about as far up that 'physic' line as possible, I bet Leica is looking towards the future and that future is in digital binoculars. Did you see where Leica has a Leica Phone out now? We all know Leica's reputation for cameras and lens. So you see where Leica is going?
Now, push that forward a bit and see how Leica sits in the lead position regarding the upcoming digital binocular revolution. Leica has the cameras line-up down. They are working with the Phone AND wifi, PLUS camera PLUS apps etc. The next step is to combine all of that and push forward with the digital binocular. Leica is by far and away, in the best position to do just that. Swaro would have to partner with someone as well as Zeiss but Leica is all in-house. The next nearest competitor might be Nikon.
Now Swaro has made some inroads into this with the 8x25 monocular but it is far from a professional birding binocular/scope. (Swarovski 8x25 dG). So you can see where things are headed but I feel that Leica is just in the best position. This Swaro is just a step but it is too small, a monocular etc etc and I bet the optics are just so-so. Lots of room to improve upon here and Leica can do it.
I love my analog Leica cameras....I love my Noctivid and Ultravid and Trinovids..... so most likely my preferences would not welcome in the digital binocular but my age is not the target age, it is the next generation of younger birders etc...
