6 January 2022 - New Leica announcement (3 Viewers)

[John A Roberts]

Hi Jerry,

With conventional binoculars, the Leitz Generation 2 Trinovids were very compact e.g. compare a 10x40 to a Leica BN 8x42 (from LEICA TRINOVID 10 x 40 (122m/1000m) ). As can be seen, while the popular Leica BA/ BN series was only slightly longer it was notably portly.

When Leica came out with the Ultravids they addressed the problem of the bulky RA on the BA/ BN series (Four images from mnich comparing a 7x42 BN to an 8x42 Ultravid can be found at: ULTRA HD vs TRINO BN. They clearly show the significant reduction to the amount of RA covering on the UV).

The result is that the Ultravid is the shortest and most compact of current premium roof prism binoculars e.g. see an image from Tobias' 8x42 mega-test. It shows the UV 8x42 compared to it’s Zeiss and Swarovski counterparts (from greatestbinoculars: the magnificent five - 8x42 premium binoculars review Leica Ultravid Swarovski SLC and Swarovision Zeiss HT and SF )

And while the newer Noctivid x42 is longer it’s still slender e.g. compare it to a x42 BN (from a tweet from The Birder’s Store dated 10th June 2021)

- - -
However, with all three generations of the Leica Geovid rangefinders there's not much good news in terms of size.
Compare:
• the brick like Leica Generation 1 x42 RF (a rebadged Vectronix) to the sizeable Zeiss Gen 1 x45 RF

• the Leica Gen 2 8x42 RF to the Ultravid 8x42 (from Leica Geovid 8x42 HD-M - binoculars review - AllBinos.com )

• the Leica Gen 3 x42 RF to the Zeiss Gen 1 x45 RF and the Swarovski EL Range x42 (from: https://technodocbox.com/70087467-Ca...usrustung.html )

• the Zeiss Gen 2 x42 RF to the Leica Gen 3 x42 RF (from 3 Rangefinder Binoculars You Need to Check Out - Ross Outdoors | Archery, Optics and Hunting Pro Shop )


While the Swarovski EL Range has those underside bulges, they do allow a generally compact unit - though with mixed reviews as to how the handling feels.
So a matter of individual preference in relation to handling and aesthetics.

However, the big advantage of the outboard mounting of the components is the significantly superior optical transmission.
See Jan’s images of and comments about the components, in post #8 at: Leica Geovid HB-B 8x42, an independent comparative review
And see various transmission graphs from Gijs at: Loss Of Brightness With 8X42 RF (HT)


John

 

[William Lewis]

Hi Jerry,

With conventional binoculars, the Leitz Generation 2 Trinovids were very compact e.g. compare a 10x40 to a Leica BN 8x42 (from LEICA TRINOVID 10 x 40 (122m/1000m) ). As can be seen, while the popular Leica BA/ BN series was only slightly longer it was notably portly.

When Leica came out with the Ultravids they addressed the problem of the bulky RA on the BA/ BN series (Four images from mnich comparing a 7x42 BN to an 8x42 Ultravid can be found at: ULTRA HD vs TRINO BN. They clearly show the significant reduction to the amount of RA covering on the UV).

The result is that the Ultravid is the shortest and most compact of current premium roof prism binoculars e.g. see an image from Tobias' 8x42 mega-test. It shows the UV 8x42 compared to it’s Zeiss and Swarovski counterparts (from greatestbinoculars: the magnificent five - 8x42 premium binoculars review Leica Ultravid Swarovski SLC and Swarovision Zeiss HT and SF )

And while the newer Noctivid x42 is longer it’s still slender e.g. compare it to a x42 BN (from a tweet from The Birder’s Store dated 10th June 2021)

- - -
However, with all three generations of the Leica Geovid rangefinders there's not much good news in terms of size.
Compare:
• the brick like Leica Generation 1 x42 RF (a rebadged Vectronix) to the sizeable Zeiss Gen 1 x45 RF

• the Leica Gen 2 8x42 RF to the Ultravid 8x42 (from Leica Geovid 8x42 HD-M - binoculars review - AllBinos.com )

• the Leica Gen 3 x42 RF to the Zeiss Gen 1 x45 RF and the Swarovski EL Range x42 (from: https://technodocbox.com/70087467-Ca...usrustung.html )

• the Zeiss Gen 2 x42 RF to the Leica Gen 3 x42 RF (from 3 Rangefinder Binoculars You Need to Check Out - Ross Outdoors | Archery, Optics and Hunting Pro Shop )


While the Swarovski EL Range has those underside bulges, they do allow a generally compact unit - though with mixed reviews as to how the handling feels.
So a matter of individual preference in relation to handling and aesthetics.

However, the big advantage of the outboard mounting of the components is the significantly superior optical transmission.
See Jan’s images of and comments about the components, in post #8 at: Leica Geovid HB-B 8x42, an independent comparative review
And see various transmission graphs from Gijs at: Loss Of Brightness With 8X42 RF (HT)


John

Hi John

I suppose having the perger prisms for IS packaging would present advantages as it means the electrics can go above the dip in profile between the eye pieces and the oculars meaning the total depth of the instrument from the top of the eye piece to the bottom of the oculars would be smaller than with a roof or conventional porro type binocular?

All the best

Will

 

[A2GG]

Just wait...the future of binoculars is digital.... Leica is in the lead in my thinking given their camera/binocular background. If they build it, you will come.

I will not

 

[Rg548]

I will not

😂😂🤣

 

[PYRTLE]

If they build it, you will come.

Is that an adaptation from a tag line in the film, " Jurassic Park " ?
Trust me, this old dinosaur will be long gone by then.

 

[lmans66]

Is that an adaptation from a tag line in the film, " Jurassic Park " ?
Trust me, this old dinosaur will be long gone by then.

Actually comes from a Baseball movie call 'Field of Dream's...." More a movie the folks on this side of the pond might appreciate due to it is baseball. I am not sure, does England etc have any baseball? .... I know Cricket which is actually more exciting than baseball! jim

 

[PYRTLE]

Actually comes from a Baseball movie call 'Field of Dream's...." More a movie the folks on this side of the pond might appreciate due to it is baseball. I am not sure, does England etc have any baseball? .... I know Cricket which is actually more exciting than baseball! jim

Brilliant film, great storyline and Kevin Costner at his very best imo. Maybe I'll come back to play cricket on an old village green somewhere,
Regards.
Still wish these were 32mm Noctivids, hey ho.

 

[Loud Green Man]

Take a look at the Swarovski Range binocular, they have a lump that contains either the electronics or battery.
Jerry

I understood the two Swaro humps you refer to allowed the electronics to be kept well away from the optics. Other makes having the RF module and cabling stuffed in one tube only.

I may be wrong.

LGM

 

[jgraider]

Plagiarized from another board, but an excellent analogy.
The Geovid PRO is not designed purely as a binocular. It is an integrated Rangefinding, multi-technology device, and is holistically designed to optimize all of its functions as a complete system. So, they set out to make the best compact, dual-barreled, fully-integrated, ballistic solution device - which it very well may be. But they didn’t set out to make the world’s best 32mm binocular. That would be a completely different effort that would likely compromise the functionality/effectiveness of other system components/features.

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Will (post # 242),

It would seem technically necessary that IS binoculars consist of a single external housing for the main components (and so IPD adjustment is by moving the eyepieces) i.e. the stabilisation module needs to simultaneously and equally adjust the view in both optical pathways e.g. see an image of the Canon 12x32 IS.

Then in terms of housing the necessary volume of components, is a designer going to want a shape that’s narrower side-to-side but higher (like the Canon), or wider but flatter? (while not an IS design, the Gen 1 Geovid gives an idea what that might look like).

One advantage of prisms with axial offset, when combined with a narrower/ higher design (as in the Canon), is that the mass sits lower in the hands relative to the eye line. In contrast, axially offset prisms when combined with a wider/ flatter design, would give increased stereo effect like conventional Porro prism binoculars.

So prisms with axial offset (such as the Perger, or the Porro Type I or II, or even the old Sprenger-Leman roof) can give a designer an extra degree of freedom in building a narrower/ higher unit. However, the degree of offset of the Perger may not always be sufficient, as it seems to be less than either of the Porro types. See post #122, along with the various images in post #116, at: Zeiss: Collection of cross-section and cutaway images


John

 

[John A Roberts]

And some additional comparison images that some may find interesting:

• Leica 1st and 2nd Gen x42 Geovids (as can be seen the Gen 1 was enormous!)

• Leica 2nd and 3rd Gen x42 Geovids (an external laser projector is on the front of each)

• Zeiss HT x42 and Gen 2 x42 RF (not too dissimilar in bulk)

• Swarovski EL Range and the EL SV (the underside bulges of the Range allow the main body to very similar in shape and size to the SV's)


John

 

[William Lewis]

Thanks John. So it seems that maybe the game is porro optical simplicity in a smaller package with just enough room for the electrics, we will see!

 

[Ontario]

Plagiarized from another board, but an excellent analogy.
The Geovid PRO is not designed purely as a binocular. It is an integrated Rangefinding, multi-technology device, and is holistically designed to optimize all of its functions as a complete system. So, they set out to make the best compact, dual-barreled, fully-integrated, ballistic solution device - which it very well may be. But they didn’t set out to make the world’s best 32mm binocular. That would be a completely different effort that would likely compromise the functionality/effectiveness of other system components/features.

Looks like Leica hit a home run with these … update from a shot show vendor posted on another forum “These will start shipping to me on 1 April 2022. Please contact me to get your name on a backorder list - as these units will be seriously backordered, with Leica already getting way more pre-orders than available product.”

Leica nearly struck out with their recent launches the Noctivid and Retrovid lines were not well received with less than stellar sales figures.

 

[dries1]

Is it a bit early to determine the sales of these instruments? Perhaps over a year one would be able to determine the success.

 

[Ontario]

Is it a bit early to determine the sales of these instruments? Perhaps over a year one would be able to determine the success.

The Geovid line as a whole has been a big success for Leica if pre orders are an indicator there’s no reason to believe otherwise same thing happened with Swarovski NL @ shot show.

 

[lmans66]

Leica nearly struck out with their recent launches the Noctivid and Retrovid lines were not well received with less than stellar sales figures.

Not sure where you get your figures at but I have a feeling that the Retrovid is just a niche binocular, and the Noctivid line, while excellent, is just not nearly as complete as Swaro or Zeiss and frankly, Leica doesn't carry the weight in the binocular line as it does in the camera line. Did you see where they just launch the M11 Rangefinder and can get $9000 for the camera alone; no lens's.... Given that, you can see where Leica puts it dollars.

I feel lucky to have a Noctivid ....and the Retrovid as the products are simply exceptional.

 

[PYRTLE]

Looks like Leica hit a home run with these … update from a shot show vendor posted on another forum “These will start shipping to me on 1 April 2022. Please contact me to get your name on a backorder list - as these units will be seriously backordered, with Leica already getting way more pre-orders than available product.”

Leica nearly struck out with their recent launches the Noctivid and Retrovid lines were not well received with less than stellar sales figures.

That will be for the hunting / stalking enthusiasts so no real surprise at all given that area of optics, whilst the vendor is just talking normal promotion hype to secure orders and business.....all pretty normal. So yes, this Geovid Pro should be successful for Leica. Birders and Wildlife watchers, not so.

 

[Paultricounty]

Not sure where you get your figures at but I have a feeling that the Retrovid is just a niche binocular, and the Noctivid line, while excellent, is just not nearly as complete as Swaro or Zeiss and frankly, Leica doesn't carry the weight in the binocular line as it does in the camera line. Did you see where they just launch the M11 Rangefinder and can get $9000 for the camera alone; no lens's.... Given that, you can see where Leica puts it dollars.

I feel lucky to have a Noctivid ....and the Retrovid as the products are simply exceptional.

I was wondering why would the Noctivids not be selling well? Obviously they’re high end luxury binoculars and only appeal to a small segment of the binocular buying public like all the pricey stuff. Just like the NL‘s an SF‘s to name a few. Build wise in my opinion they’re the best out there. The optics are brighter, wider FOV, better edge than the Ultravids. Not to mention, probably the best focuser on the market.

Is it because the Ultravids are $400-$500 cheaper and still excellent optics?

What are the sales numbers on Ultravids? Keeping in mind it’s a larger line up. Maybe just the numbers for the 8 & 10 Nocs and UV’s would tell a different story.

How well are NL’s, EL’s and SF’s selling in comparison?

I agree the Retrovids are a niche market, same can be said for the Swaro Habicht’s, not for everybody, that’s for sure.

Paul

 

[Ratal]

The Noctavid I tried suffered so badly from CA I thought it was a joke pair of cheap bins inside a Lecia armour.

I tried both 8x and 10x, and wouldn't have paid 500 UK sterling for them. Across the moorland the scenery ran with yellow and purples. On the snow it was nausea inducing. I cannot even begin to fathom how they are so expensive.

 

[PYRTLE]

I was wondering why would the Noctivids not be selling well?
Paul

My view, when working in the sports optics retail sector is that Leica's poor Customer Service after reorganisation of their UK headquarters along with Swarovski's launch of the ELs and ATS /STS HD range saw them slip from the leading brand and further fall behind when Zeiss introduced the FL series. Accordingly the brand name lost confidence and favour, certainly with many UK birders though the Ultravids were selling reasonably. The new spotting scopes 62 and 82 APO Televid were somewhat disappointing, compared to Swarovski and now Kowa. With Leica then opening their Mayfair outlet and a reduction in traditional retail shops demonstrating their products their sales have plateaued.

The Retrovid was for enthusiasts rather than "serious" birders whilst the Noctivid came up against the newer versions of ELs and the Zeiss SF 42s - a difficult sector to take sales from. Additionally the failure or delay to bring out a new 32mm alpha suggests many users stay with the other two.