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8x32 UVHD+ vs 7x35 Retrovid (1 Viewer)

Since we are talking about wide FOV (and at this point many/most premium 8x32/42 binoculars have a FOV as wide, or wider, than that of the 7x35 or 7x42 Leicas) this reminded me of something relevant to the question earlier about why there are so many 7x fans, which I don't think is discussed enough.

When people discuss FOV/focus it's nearly always in terms of AREA, as in "what percentage of a (flat) circle is visible and sharp?". It's all about "sharp to the edge". I don't think enough attention is paid to the VOLUME of space that is clear and in focus, which is a function of both FOV and DOF..... as well as the field curvature.

Everyone judges edge blur by staring at something flat and seeing how sharp the stuff is at the edge. The text at the edge is blurry! But the world is 3D, not 2D. I don't use binoculars to read text on a flat sign, I'm using them to observe the natural world.

If you reframe the discussion as "what % of the VOLUME of 3D space is in focus?" instead of "what % of the AREA of 2D plane is in focus?" the 7x42 UV suddenly leaps ahead of the flat field 8x42's.

When you gaze out at the natural world, which is not flat and does not have sharp edges, the curved field 7x42 UV shows more of that world as clear and in focus than the flat field 8x42. Whereas the flat field 8x42 presents more like a plane of focus "slicing" through the landscape, the curved field 7x42 UV produces a big "blob" of focus. And, precisely because of the field curvature, the edges of the "focus blob" sort of bend towards you (like a jelly bean lol).

This is my horrific 30 second effort in MS Paint to represent what I mean visually. Pretend this is an overhead view, the green oval is the zone of clear focus for the flat field 8x42, the orange "jelly bean blob" is the area of clear focus of the 7x42 UV:

1643132038136.png

If you're looking at a flat subject (like a sign with printed text or a piece of graph paper) to test "edge sharpness", the green oval presents as much "better" than the orange jelly bean. My Nikon EDG 8x42 would get a higher score than the 7x42 UV in the "edge sharpness" category. But if that's a bird perched on a big shrub, with bushes and trees and ground and all sorts of other stuff around and in front / behind the bird, more of that natural space is clear and in focus with the orange jelly bean.

Or per the water discussion above, flat field fans will point out how that storm petrel which flitters into the edge of the FOV will be more in focus.... but what about the bird 50 feet behind the subject bird? or 50 feet in front of and to the left?

I think this is a big part of the "magic" of the 7x42 UV -- if you stop focusing on just the edges, there's just so much stuff that is clear and in focus! Some people like that "slicing" effect and how it isolates the subject in focus more. But for my preferences, the 7x42 UV feels more "natural" and "transparent" than anything else I've used and I've concluded it's largely because it feels the most like you're NOT using an optic, because it more closely approximates normal vision.

But not just any binocular can pull this trick off. I've used plenty of other 6x-7x binoculars and none of them do it at the level the 7x42 UV does (I haven't had the pleasure of using the 7x42 FL, so I don't doubt that it has similar appeal in this respect). It's this magical chemistry of huge sweet spot, huge FOV, great glass, perfect sharpness, that great Leica color and contrast, the lower magnification, the curved field....
 
I think this explains well why I find the view of flat field bins inherently unnatural (although I’m sure they can vary in the degree of this unnaturalness). As others have said, it’s more like looking at a poster than at the real world.
 
Since we are talking about wide FOV (and at this point many/most premium 8x32/42 binoculars have a FOV as wide, or wider, than that of the 7x35 or 7x42 Leicas) this reminded me of something relevant to the question earlier about why there are so many 7x fans, which I don't think is discussed enough.

When people discuss FOV/focus it's nearly always in terms of AREA, as in "what percentage of a (flat) circle is visible and sharp?". It's all about "sharp to the edge". I don't think enough attention is paid to the VOLUME of space that is clear and in focus, which is a function of both FOV and DOF..... as well as the field curvature.

Everyone judges edge blur by staring at something flat and seeing how sharp the stuff is at the edge. The text at the edge is blurry! But the world is 3D, not 2D. I don't use binoculars to read text on a flat sign, I'm using them to observe the natural world.

If you reframe the discussion as "what % of the VOLUME of 3D space is in focus?" instead of "what % of the AREA of 2D plane is in focus?" the 7x42 UV suddenly leaps ahead of the flat field 8x42's.

When you gaze out at the natural world, which is not flat and does not have sharp edges, the curved field 7x42 UV shows more of that world as clear and in focus than the flat field 8x42. Whereas the flat field 8x42 presents more like a plane of focus "slicing" through the landscape, the curved field 7x42 UV produces a big "blob" of focus. And, precisely because of the field curvature, the edges of the "focus blob" sort of bend towards you (like a jelly bean lol).

This is my horrific 30 second effort in MS Paint to represent what I mean visually. Pretend this is an overhead view, the green oval is the zone of clear focus for the flat field 8x42, the orange "jelly bean blob" is the area of clear focus of the 7x42 UV:

View attachment 1426469

If you're looking at a flat subject (like a sign with printed text or a piece of graph paper) to test "edge sharpness", the green oval presents as much "better" than the orange jelly bean. My Nikon EDG 8x42 would get a higher score than the 7x42 UV in the "edge sharpness" category. But if that's a bird perched on a big shrub, with bushes and trees and ground and all sorts of other stuff around and in front / behind the bird, more of that natural space is clear and in focus with the orange jelly bean.

Or per the water discussion above, flat field fans will point out how that storm petrel which flitters into the edge of the FOV will be more in focus.... but what about the bird 50 feet behind the subject bird? or 50 feet in front of and to the left?

I think this is a big part of the "magic" of the 7x42 UV -- if you stop focusing on just the edges, there's just so much stuff that is clear and in focus! Some people like that "slicing" effect and how it isolates the subject in focus more. But for my preferences, the 7x42 UV feels more "natural" and "transparent" than anything else I've used and I've concluded it's largely because it feels the most like you're NOT using an optic, because it more closely approximates normal vision.

But not just any binocular can pull this trick off. I've used plenty of other 6x-7x binoculars and none of them do it at the level the 7x42 UV does (I haven't had the pleasure of using the 7x42 FL, so I don't doubt that it has similar appeal in this respect). It's this magical chemistry of huge sweet spot, huge FOV, great glass, perfect sharpness, that great Leica color and contrast, the lower magnification, the curved field....
This is interesting.
'Immersive view' vs 'poster view'??
 
This also raises (again) the issue of whether anyone actually looks at things at the field stop (apart from checking that all important 'edge to edge sharpness') or whether, in practice, you actually just move the binocular! :rolleyes: I think some claim that edge sharpness increases apparent FOV but I'm afraid that I don't buy that (or rather, it doesn't work like that for me), and when it comes at the cost of having a relatively two dimensional image instead of an immersive three dimensional image..... well I know which I'd rather have......

Personally I find looking at subjects at the extreme edge of the FOV as easy and natural as looking at something at the periphery of my vision (as opposed to moving my head! ;)
 
I find looking at subjects at the extreme edge of the FOV as easy and natural as looking at something at the periphery of my vision (as opposed to moving my head!
Regardless of posted opinions I think that everyone has two methods of viewing alignment, with one being doing as you mention, looking around the scene presently visible within the lenses, and the other being the oft mentioned moving of center.

Not sure if others do this in the same manner or not though, and I'll typically reframe to center on the item of interest, or to see more precisely the exact scene that I'm interested in viewing at the moment. Amazing tools, these binoculars!
 
Not sure if others do this in the same manner or not though, and I'll typically reframe to center on the item of interest, or to see more precisely the exact scene that I'm interested in viewing at the moment. Amazing tools, these binoculars!
Yes, exactly. I guess if you're tripod mounted without an easily adjustable tilt head then looking towards the edges will be inevitable, but why anybody would choose to look at a subject at the field stop with a handheld binocular is beyond me. Of course a large sweet spot so that one can look around the central 75-80% is highly desirable, but beyond that I just move the binoculars...........
 
Regardless of posted opinions I think that everyone has two methods of viewing alignment, with one being doing as you mention, looking around the scene presently visible within the lenses, and the other being the oft mentioned moving of center.

Not sure if others do this in the same manner or not though, and I'll typically reframe to center on the item of interest, or to see more precisely the exact scene that I'm interested in viewing at the moment. Amazing tools, these binoculars!
I totally agree with this and what was explained by eitanalman. While I don't mind having a wide FOV, there is a difference between FOV and perhaps 'usable' FOV... if you are looking for total sharpness. For instance the Swaro 8x30 has a relatively average FOV but it is sharp to the corners, while the 7x35 we are talking about has a wider overall FOV but isn't sharp to the corners.

For me, sharpness to the corners is immaterial since I do what is being suggested by Trinovid and just move the center of the sweet spot to the object in question.

Having a wide FOV? I don't really place much stock in that either for I am a 10x guy for years and only recently found the 7x with a much wider FOV. When picking up my 7x, the wide FOV isn't the first thing that comes to mind so I suppose that is telling me that in my style of birding, FOV isn't that important.
 
Good...than you don't have to buy them, just as I don't have to buy a NL...we all have our reasons 'to buy or not to buy'.

A couple of things: We all try to find the right 'mix' of binoculars, or, we just settle on one and go forward with that and are happy. But if you are in that category of finding that 'mix'....well, in my case, the 7x35 is what I feel to be a great substitute for the 8x32, or 7x42 or even 8x42. With the 7x35, I don't feel like I need to purchase a 8x32 and a 7x42, or any combination of those as I try to find the right mix. Other than a 10x42 and some pocket ones, the 7x35 fulfills that middle objective need.

I also am attracted to the retro style which provides me with that durable leatherette.... I know this sounds strange but one of the reasons I like the Leica retro's is that they 'are not Swaro's'... Be-gone with the 'masses' I say, be-gone I tell you! ... I go down my own trail and the retro 7x35 certainly takes me there.

I was just out yesterday for a few hours and the overall lightness, the feel....the look. Wow....Love em! Part of birding is not only birding, nature etc...but it also means I enjoy the gear I go out with. Heck, I hold that binocular for hours at a time and I want them to fit like a glove and want me to continue to hold them. In fact, I am holding them right now as I type, ....I just can't place them down. jim
Jim... the wonderful way you describe the 7x35 Retro makes me want to add a pair, even though I've got more than my hands full of binoculars already (including UVHD+ 8x32 and 7x42 models - which I will say are two of my favorites :LOL: ). Even though I prefer the modern styling of the UVHD+ models, I do think I would quite enjoy a pair of 7x35 Retros!
 
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Sorry, I can only offer the same opinion. - signed, Satisfied Ultravid Convert
I was referring to the Retrovid. Although it’s beautiful in build and optics , it’s different than the Ultravids. There seems to be more noticeable distortion as you get off axis In the retro. It’s still alpha glass by all measurements. That deterioration is much less noticeable in the Ultravids. The retros still have the beautiful Leica saturation and warmness as the Ultravids.
 
Jim... the wonderful way you describe the 7x35 Retro makes me want to add a pair, even though I've got more than my hands full of binoculars already (including UVHD+ 8x32 and 7x42 models - which I will say are two of my favorites :LOL: ). Even though I prefer the modern styling of the UVHD+ models, I do think I would quite enjoy a pair of 7x35 Retros!
The retros are nice, no doubt. You will like the optics, it’s got that Leica delicious we all like so much. And the form factor is the driving force. I don’t think I’d buy these for the optics alone. It’s the package. Just as we love those little 8x32UV beauties, it’s the whole package.

But don’t forget, you have to find room for the Noctivids. 😃

Paul
 
And the form factor is the driving force. I don’t think I’d buy these for the optics alone. It’s the package. Just as we love those little 8x32UV beauties, it’s the whole package.
Paul,

Whether you intended it or not, that was possibly the most helpful thing anyone has written in answering the question which I started this thread to answer (even if I wasn't originally sure what I wanted to know ;) )! 🤣
 
I’m probably in a minority of one here, but I would much rather Leica produced a 7x50 UVHD+. Now that would be something! For now though the 7x42 is the best compromise available IMHO (and needs, uses etc).
Mike,

Minority of 1... I could be tempted but I think I know the extra weight even at 7x would rob me of some of the pleasure.

Tom
 
But seriously, I might consider buying them if the price was right (I'd have to pay import tax......) if you'd consider sending them to Finland?
Hi Mike,

I was quoted a real good price for the 7x35 Trinovids from Duncan in Lessi. Im in the States and it still would come out better than any deal I got here.

It’s really a wonderful binocular , such a nice image, it just draws you in, Leica! 😃

It takes you away from the generic , everything the same binoculars. It’s the most unique brand new , old binoculars you can buy with Beautiful optics. Such a nice pice of equipment to own. Be careful these definitely will fall in to the “not for everyone syndrome” category.

Paul
 
Leica Store Lessi.... in the Netherlands. Google it ....a quick email to Duncan and he will get back to you...
 
What, who is Duncan in Lessi, please?
about-us - Leica Store Lisse

Bought a few Leica‘s from him. Numbers worked out better than buying in the States (substantially). Great communication , one of the oldest Leica dealers they tell me. For me this is not a try something out to see if you want to keep them purchase. Unless something is wrong my purchases are keepers from him.

Tell him Paul from New York sent you 😄

Paul
 
about-us - Leica Store Lisse

Bought a few Leica‘s from him. Numbers worked out better than buying in the States (substantially). Great communication , one of the oldest Leica dealers they tell me. For me this is not a try something out to see if you want to keep them purchase. Unless something is wrong my purchases are keepers from him.

Tell him Paul from New York sent you 😄

Paul
No concerns about warranty on non US purchases?
 
No concerns about warranty on non US purchases?
Warranty itself is still solid as Leica is a Leica and will back it up. But, if something is wrong you will have to send it to Europe as opposed to Leica USA. Really not a big deal. I have yet to send in a pair of Leica's for repair and if I do....it is 'off' somewhere so if not USA; Europe.
 
No concerns about warranty on non US purchases?
Leicas bought in Europe have a 10-year international warranty that will also cover repair in the US.

Leicas bought in the US have a 10-year no-fault protection plan, plus a 30-year warranty of the optics system.

Warranties are transferable.
 
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