A couple from East Sussex, UK (1 Viewer)

[MTem]

A visit to Cuckmere on the south coast this morning and a couple to ID please.

Photos 1/2/3 - same bird. With my pathetic track record separating Rock and Water pipits I would like judgement on this bird. Looked much lighter, brighter, paler-faced and less heavily marked than the Rock pipits also present. Refused to fly or spread its tail when I was watching (it flew off over the sea wall while I was looking at the images!), but the ends of the tail feathers do look white in photo 2.

Photos 4/5 - poor photos from some distance. Took my eye as the only small wader present on the far river bank - took two quick photos before preparing to move closer. It was among a flock of BHG, which then took off and spooked it. It flew off NE like a snipe, so I assumed that's what it was. On viewing the photos it clearly isn't! Now a Baird's was seen at Cuckmere on 7/9 but not since .... and this does look awfully like one. Not sure whether I want confirmation or not ....... (not sure confirmation is really likely on these photos!)

Mick

 

[birdmeister]

I can't comment on the pipit as I have no experience with any of the pipits across the pond.

The colors on your shorebird look too reddish for Baird's Sandpiper. However, shape is intriguing. Rather hunched over and oval-shaped (pro Baird's), but something doesn't look quite right for Baird's. Perhaps too pot-bellied?

I would be interested to hear other opinions.

 

[KenM]

Pipits look like Rocks to me Mick, and the wader...might Little Stint be a candidate on these images, accepting that it is somewhat more attenuated than might be preferred?

Cheers

 

[SteveClifton]

Rock Pipit an Juv Little Stint

 

[MTem]

Thanks all.
Re the pipit. I accept the judgement, but Steve can you say what you see that separates it from these two:

http://www.surfbirds.com/community-blogs/wp-content/uploads/bghst/c/calidrislanza/6280.jpg
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/water-pipit-natural-habitat-close-up-anthus-spinoletta-45628068.jpg

In the first case I see a better defined super and face pattern, and a paler base colour to the breast; in the second slightly better defined wing bars. Are these the features you are looking for. Just trying (again) to sort these two. I am more used to darker, smudgier Rock pipits and find these paler versions a problem.

Re the wader the colours are a bit warmer than true as it was taken a 07:48hrs with the rising sun on the bird.
Little stint is of course far more likely, and indeed I see in a local birder's blog he saw a juv there on 27/9, so I think that seals the deal. Best outcome really - not the ideal way to see a Baird's for the first time this side of the pond.
Mick

 

[SteveClifton]

Thanks all.

In the first case I see a better defined super and face pattern, and a paler base colour to the breast; in the second slightly better defined wing bars. Are these the features you are looking for. Just trying (again) to sort these two. I am more used to darker, smudgier Rock pipits and find these paler versions a problem.

Mick

Mick, yes, that's what I'm seeing. I don't see enough of either littoralis Rock or Water Pipits-so no expert, but the latter usually have distinctly clearer streaking on whiter base colour. Your bird has that swarthy look that is typical of Rock Pipit. The streaking on the flanks is also broader and heavier than you would expect on Water Pipit (which are typically fewer and finer).

The images you've linked clearly show the variation in the species, though I suspect lighting is also playing a part here. Look at the same bird in warm/cold light and you'd likely think they were two different birds.

The books/literature tell us that petrosus and littoralis aren't reliably separable in winter, but i suspect most lighter birds like yours, away from rocky coastlines are overwintering littorals?

Both birds still have decent wing bars (unlike yours) and the first has a warmer brown rump-a feature not visible on your bird or the second Water Pipit.

Rock is also supposed to show an un-broken eye ring (as yours does, but broken in Water Pipit) though this feature is again open to interpretation on the linked photos due to angle and light.

The wader is to my eyes a clear juvenile Little Stint. Wrong body shape for Baird's, with that characteristic gingery flush on the breast sides (no breast band of Baird's) and marked contrast between the upper and lower scapulars.

 

[MTem]

Thanks for the expansion Steve - appreciated.
I'm very happy with the Little Stint ID - I only got a quite glimpse through my bins from long distance to be sure it was a small wader (yes it was that far away!) before going for a quick couple of snaps. I'm sure I could have got much closer if the BHG's hadn't lifted off and sorted it out there and then. As I said as it flew it jinked like a snipe and I thought that was it until I looked at the images. Wishful thinking led me to look at the excellent Birdguides images of the early Sept Baird's at exactly the same spot on the river, and it does look superficially very similar (through rose-coloured specs at least).

As for the Rock vs Water pipits - well still learning...

Mick

 

[KenM]

FWIW Mick, I used to bird Cuckmere Haven on a regular weekend basis some 30 odd years ago, and the only Rockit that I ever found was Anthus petrosus, as you say they generally looked deeper bill based, ''dirty smudgy'' things. As Steve suggested, the ''paler'' variants that are shown in your images are probably being affected by the bright light on the day? That said when I went further East, Ramsgate for e.g. I'd frequently (during the Winter months) find A.littoralis types, seemingly cleaner often with an olivey or brown cast to the plumage...Pipits always highly variable, therein lies the challenge.

Cheers

 

[MTem]

A last comment - we can rule out the bright light of the day as a differentiating factor - there were at least two other 'dark, smudgy' Rock pipits feeding in the same water-filled depression (and three lovely Wheatears) at the same time. It was the difference of this bird that initially took my eye and caused me to photograph it.
Mick