Advice needed! (1 Viewer)

[BGS61]

A long time lurker, but this is my first post! I am always fascinated by the range of opinions and technical knowledge of optics from some members. This a something of repeat question so I’m not sure if anybody will be able to add to the many previous threads on this particular binocular, but advice and/or comments welcome.

I use a 2018 Swarovski 8x32 EL Field Pro. (In minority here I think. To me the FP strap arrangement is a vast improvement on traditional lugs, but that’s a debate for another thread!) I still find the Swarovskis almost perfect and they get almost daily use. I also thought that I had been lucky to avoid any of the armour issues that make the headlines, but unfortunately, rather suddenly, about three months ago the armour started to deteriorate noticeably where my right hand sits which given as to how I hold and focus them is the obvious place to suffer! The deterioration is progressing quite quickly.

Swarovski will be replacing the armour, but it will take several weeks, so the crux of the post is that I am probably in another minority amongst the contributors to the optics pages, in that by and large I only use one pair of bins and don’t have anything to use as a suitable substitute so I have an excuse to get a new toy! Given the time of year and lack of light (UK) I think an 8x40/42 is the way to go and may help with watching Hen Harriers and SEOs amongst other things in the fens of East Anglia at dusk.

As a back up pair I don’t think a top-tier instrument is necessary, so based on reviews I’ve got thought couple of options to have a look at: a Hawke Frontier EDX, Opticron Verano or an Opticron Aurora all in 8x42, with an initial leaning to Aurora. However, the option of an ex-demo Zeiss SFL 8x40 at about 60% of the current UK price has come up. Stated to be in 9.5/10 condition, I must say I’m very tempted. I can’t see them to check them, but I have briefly handled a pair a while back when an over enthusiastic salesman in a local shop was desperate to sell me something when the camera lens I looked at failed to temp me! They appeared very good, looking at some local feral pigeons and ornate stonework on buildings, but as I wasn’t really in the market for new bins I didn’t give them too much attention or a thorough workout to test them. I don’t expect the ex-demos be around for long so need to make a quick decision. I've never bought any optical gear without handling/testing it first and although I will have the option of returning them I don’t really want to go through the aggravation of returning them and being back to square one!

Are the SFLs worth taking the risk on or is there something else I should consider?

Thanks for any views....

 

[Maljunulo]

Have you ever handled, or looked through an SFL?

That night be a good way to start. In my opinion, that is the only way to know if it suits you.

Welcome and good luck in your search.

 

[mwhogue]

Are the SFLs worth taking the risk on or is there something else I should consider?

My tuppence,

"Immediately, Mr. Bond."

I don’t expect the ex-demos be around for long so need to make a quick decision. I've never bought any optical gear without handling/testing it first and although I will have the option of returning them I don’t really want to go through the aggravation of returning them and being back to square one!

"Every human endeavor involves a particle of risk Jack."

Mike

 

[BGS61]

Have you ever handled, or looked through an SFL?

That night be a good way to start. In my opinion, that is the only way to know if it suits you.

Welcome and good luck in your search.

Thanks for replying. Yes, as I said in the original post I have handled and looked through them briefly. They seemed very sharp and bright, but the test was short, sometime ago, in pretty good light and I didn't pay full attention to them. So far as I recall nothing in the handling immediately shouted "I couldn't use these". Unfortunately, the offer will be short lived and I won't be able to get anywhere to try them again before I have to make the decision. Perhaps I shouldn't be so lazy as to shy away from trying them an sending them back if they don't suit!

 

[BGS61]

My tuppence,

"Immediately, Mr. Bond."



"Every human endeavor involves a particle of risk Jack."

Mike

Thanks. I am getting very temped! As I said to Maljunulo, "perhaps I shouldn't be so lazy as to shy away from trying them an sending them back if they don't suit!"

 

[Mike Crawley]

My only advice (and I’m starting to sound like a broken record) is to go somewhere that you can try the various options side-by-side.

Any reputable optics shop will be happy to help and let you take as much time as you need.
Your bio says you are in Cambridge, must be places not too far away

 

[Maljunulo]

Thanks for replying. Yes, as I said in the original post I have handled and looked through them briefly. They seemed very sharp and bright, but the test was short, sometime ago, in pretty good light and I didn't pay full attention to them. So far as I recall nothing in the handling immediately shouted "I couldn't use these". Unfortunately, the offer will be short lived and I won't be able to get anywhere to try them again before I have to make the decision. Perhaps I shouldn't be so lazy as to shy away from trying them an sending them back if they don't suit!

Well, I don't see that you have any real choice, if you can't "go and try". Direct comparison is really the only way to find what fits and works.

I wish there was an easier way for you, but you don't really want to end up with something which is "just okay".

Ordering and returning, is a fact of life, and some do it shamelessly, and for many years. As long as you don't abuse it, and are very careful with the merchandise, as long as it is in your hands, I see nothing wrong with it.

I hope you work out your dilemma.

 

[ArchStanton]

Thanks. I am getting very temped! As I said to Maljunulo, "perhaps I shouldn't be so lazy as to shy away from trying them a sending them back if they don't suit!"

If possible, I’d visit a well-stocked optics shop in your area and compare different binoculars. I recently ordered a pair of Opticron Aurora 8x42’s that are scheduled to arrive this week and will post my personal opinion to this thread if I see that you still haven’t purchased a pair of binoculars.

 

[fazalmajid]

I'd suggest getting something radically different so it will not overlap too much with your ELs when you get them back. Either pocket x20 or x25 binoculars, or image-stabilized ones like the upcoming Nikon 10x25S/12x25S.

 

[Popeyethesailor]

A long time lurker, but this is my first post! I am always fascinated by the range of opinions and technical knowledge of optics from some members. This a something of repeat question so I’m not sure if anybody will be able to add to the many previous threads on this particular binocular, but advice and/or comments welcome.

I use a 2018 Swarovski 8x32 EL Field Pro. (In minority here I think. To me the FP strap arrangement is a vast improvement on traditional lugs, but that’s a debate for another thread!) I still find the Swarovskis almost perfect and they get almost daily use. I also thought that I had been lucky to avoid any of the armour issues that make the headlines, but unfortunately, rather suddenly, about three months ago the armour started to deteriorate noticeably where my right hand sits which given as to how I hold and focus them is the obvious place to suffer! The deterioration is progressing quite quickly.

Swarovski will be replacing the armour, but it will take several weeks, so the crux of the post is that I am probably in another minority amongst the contributors to the optics pages, in that by and large I only use one pair of bins and don’t have anything to use as a suitable substitute so I have an excuse to get a new toy! Given the time of year and lack of light (UK) I think an 8x40/42 is the way to go and may help with watching Hen Harriers and SEOs amongst other things in the fens of East Anglia at dusk.

As a back up pair I don’t think a top-tier instrument is necessary, so based on reviews I’ve got thought couple of options to have a look at: a Hawke Frontier EDX, Opticron Verano or an Opticron Aurora all in 8x42, with an initial leaning to Aurora. However, the option of an ex-demo Zeiss SFL 8x40 at about 60% of the current UK price has come up. Stated to be in 9.5/10 condition, I must say I’m very tempted. I can’t see them to check them, but I have briefly handled a pair a while back when an over enthusiastic salesman in a local shop was desperate to sell me something when the camera lens I looked at failed to temp me! They appeared very good, looking at some local feral pigeons and ornate stonework on buildings, but as I wasn’t really in the market for new bins I didn’t give them too much attention or a thorough workout to test them. I don’t expect the ex-demos be around for long so need to make a quick decision. I've never bought any optical gear without handling/testing it first and although I will have the option of returning them I don’t really want to go through the aggravation of returning them and being back to square one!

Are the SFLs worth taking the risk on or is there something else I should consider?

Thanks for any views....

Not Far from me I am in St Neots and have a lovey pair of Swarovski NL 8x42 for sale 😀

 

[BGS61]

Not Far from me I am in St Neots and have a lovey pair of Swarovski NL 8x42 for sale 😀

That's tempting, but probably more than I need at this point in term of weight, size (and my wife tells me cost!). I switched from 8.5x42s to 32s for portability on increasingly long walking trips and the 32s still provide a superb view-for me!

 

[Popeyethesailor]

That's tempting, but probably more than I need at this point in term of weight, size (and my wife tells me cost!). I switched from 8.5x42s to 32s for portability on increasingly long walking trips and the 32s still provide a superb view-for me!

I agree, tbh that’s why I am selling them it’s my least used pair as I prefer the 8x32

 

[BGS61]

Thanks for the replies. The common theme is go to an optics retailer try the things for yourself! I couldn't agree more and have have given this advice myself more than once! I feel stupid for asking now! In forty years of buying bins I have never ordered mail and always tried them first at a dealer. On two occasions I had the intention of buying a specific instrument and after extended trials ended up with something different, thanks to a well known retailer in North Norfolk.

The fly in the ointment this time is the chance to save £600 on a well regarded lightweight instrument!

I probably need to decide today. I'll post the outcome if anybody is interested!

 

[Mike Crawley]

I think your phrase "the chance to save £600" would probably overcome my 'try before you buy' principles too.
Good Luck

 

[Rg548]

I'd save even more on a 'back up' pair and get the Conquest 8x32 for about 6-700 quid these days.
Or the Zeiss VP 8x25.... optically they give most things a run for their money.
Not massive money for either.

Or... second hand from reputable dealer... Ace optics, Focalpoint etc. Always a safe bet at not too much money.

 

[PatR]

The Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 is £574 on EBay UK from CameraCentre UK using the code FIRSTDIBS15.

That is a cracking price for a superb bit of kit.

Clifton Camera's also have 15% off selected Leica's.

 

[[email protected]]

Why get a binocular that is similar to your EL 8x32 like the SFL 8x40 or Conquest HD 8x32 except not as good. If you are used to the sharp edges of the EL, you are not going to like the soft edges of a SFL 8x40 or Conquest HD 8x32, and you will end up using the EL instead. I agree with Fazalmajid and get a smaller, lighter binocular that doesn't overlap with your EL 8x32 like a 8x25 Zeiss Victory or Swarovski CL-P 8x25 or better yet get 30% better resolution and see more detail with the new Nikon 10x25 S.

 

[Rg548]

As a back up pair I don’t think a top-tier instrument is necessary

Because the op said this......

 

[BGS61]

Thanks to all for their many interesting and useful suggestions and comments. Being new to posting on these forum thingy it was difficult to know how much background info to post without boring everybody. No offence to those whose suggestions were not acted upon, but those options were either already catered for or past experience ruled them out.

I managed to try a pair of Hawke EDX in a photographic retailer who only stocked Hawke and full price Leica. I didn’t look at the Leica as they were more than I need, but even the Hawkes were pretty good for the price. I was tempted to get them to fulfil the back-up role. However, after speaking to the supplier of the SFL who confirmed a 60(!) day approval policy I thought there was nothing to loose and with a saving of £600 over the normal UK price of around £1550, I ordered them. Maybe the Zeiss name called, as it did in 1986, when I manage to save enough to by a much desired 10x40 Dialyt. There are also family members are short of a decent binocular so they wouldn’t go to waste in the longer term.

As so often the case, spending a bit more than initially intended, the SFLs arrived the today, a remarkably quick turnaround. They looked almost pristine, except for a mark on one of the objectives! However, once a clean removed what I suspect was a finger smudge they looked like a new pair! It’s a bright sunny day, so straight to the end of the garden and Black Headed Gulls, Lesser Black Backed Gulls and Rooks feeding in the freshly cultivated field, along with soaring Buzzard and Red Kite and a Kestrel on the overhead wires provided some useful subjects for an initial appraisal and a direct comparison with the ELs, yet to be shipped off to Austria to receive their new winter plumage.

In my time of lurking in the background I have sometimes wondered whether some optics users are more focussed on testing and comparing gear, looking for the “perfect” view, rather than looking at avian subjects? Not criticising that -perhaps user’s priorities are a subject for another thread, if it hasn’t been done to death already. My comments on how they performed are based on nothing more than my personal perception how the birds (mostly) looked through the lens, no technical specs taken into consideration, no attempts to measure anything, and no specifically looking for shortcomings. Just real world use for watching birds. No resolution charts were used in the making of these comments.

In short, the image looked very good-especially for their reduced price-I might keep mentioning that! The field of view was comparable to the ELs and a wide field is something that I suspect might be over emphasised in my world. I think, based on simple trigonometry, a one degree difference would make only slightly more than a 17m difference at 1km . That doesn’t seem like much me, although I don’t like the tunnel view that too narrow a field affords. A Rook’s sunlit glossy black plumage with subtle iridescence showed exceptionally well as did the other slightly more distant gulls with clean whites against the soil and blue sky. A first year LBBG stood out clearly against the similarly coloured soil background and against a bright sky when it took flight. The colours of bills of the LBBGs and BHGs at reasonable distance were obvious. The soaring raptors looked sharp with true colour- to my eyes at least, something I had been wary of. (In a shop a while back I looked through the SF10x42 , which to me had a slight yellow/green cast compared with a Swarovski-also detected by my friend who was purchasing and who brought an EL 10x32 in preference! The Kestrel, a recurring visitor, sat long enough get a good look and the view was excellent, showing all the detail of the attached picture (taken a few weeks ago).




I think that I might not be as critical a user as some, but it was difficult to find fault in these initial views in the field (garden). True they do lose sharpness at the edge of the field, but I tend to put a subject in the centre of the frame and have never found a bit of fall off a great issue so long as it isn’t so intrusive to the central viewing area. Maybe that’s a result starting with 70s and 80s vintage bino’s. Similarly, chromatic aberration was also there right at the edge of the view -when I deliberately viewed objects that were likely to generate it and looking at the edge of the field rather than the centre, but in use I don't do this and again not intrusive or a major issue in normal use. In direct comparison the ELs were better in both of these aspects, but in terms of the overall view of the birds in the centre of the field, in this light, there was little perceivable difference in use.

Later, in the low afternoon sun and after it had set I made a more direct comparisons with the ELs. I’ve never thought that I’ve lost that much in low light since swapping from an 8.5x42 to an 8x32, but having seen the virtues of larger objectives extolled many times I have wondered occasionally if I was wrong. Overall however, I still felt that I wasn’t missing much, if anything with the 32mm ELs. The 40mm were marginally brighter, but I couldn’t in all honesty say that the views of a Wren sitting in deep shadow low in undergrowth on a river bank well, after the sun had set was better or more detailed-just a tiny bit brighter. The chequering on the wing, the supercilium, bill and leg colour all clearly visible. The same would be said for local Little Owl who often provides a partial view as it peeps out from its unusual home in some old metal pipes. Even in pretty dark conditions the facial marking and a hint of eye colour we visible. An Orange red on the rusty pipe and rusty texture showed up in both, but was slightly more obvious in the Zeiss. Another picture taken earlier in the year, shows the the Owl’s home used as the target and some breeding success!



One area where the SFLs did come out on top was in controlling glare. I had encountered this with the ELs but never thought it was as big a problem to me as some users found it. A big, old Willow on the river bank is a favourite perch for a local Barn Owl. He wasn’t there, but looking at the tree against the low sun and switching from the SFLs highlighted more glare in the ELs. Again not enough to be a major issue but the Zeiss did have the advantage.

The ELs feel more robust and solid, even with peeling armour. I think that the Zeiss has a slightly smoother focus action but it’s very marginal. In respect of handling, it’s bit unfair to criticise the SFLs since I’ve been using ELs since 2002 and the 32s since 2018, but I’m not sure about the placement of the focus in SFLs. I think I’ve always adapted to different binoculars pretty easily, but I have not yet found the placement of hands relative to the focus wheel natural. With use, I suspect I would adapt. They are however light and only a little larger than the EL 32s. Weighing both with strap and ocular cover the Swarovski were 715g against 723g for the SFLs. Perhaps this is the key to my initial enjoyment-I like lightweight “full size” binoculars. When I decided that I wanted a smaller 30-32mm binocular, I initially thought I would get the Leica UV but after trying them, along with most of the other 30-32s available in 2018, I liked the view and handling of the ELs most. The SFLs are comparable in dimensions, with a larger objective. Maybe a bit more cash than I wanted to spend and probably not something I would buy at full price as a secondary binocular, but the balance of weight, size and offer price makes them a pretty decent alternative.



Because they are “on trial” (I think I’ll keep them, but I can try them for a bit longer!) I fitted a spare strap rather than the unused Zeiss strap in the box. It reminded me why I appear to be in the minority, but to me the Field Pro strap arrangement is a joy to fit and adjust compared to the conventional flat strap though the lug and buckle system. It’s a real pain to get get right. Although the initial fitting is a one off, it’s a lot easier with the Swarovski and the lack of twisting rain guard and strap wins every time for me with the FieldPro! And the dangly bits? I just tie them up loosely and the don’t bother me.

My first reaction is that I still prefer the Swarovski. If I had to swap to the SFLs permanently would I be unhappy? Probably not, so long as there are decent birds to see with them-a bit more time will tell on the handling relating to the position of the focus wheel. The discussion has reiterated how personal opinions, perceptions and priorities are very individual. It’s obvious really, otherwise we’d all have the same binocular hanging round our neck. It’s also shown me how good 2nd tier and lower lower priced binoculars are these days! Thanks all for their input.

I just realised that I wrote a lot more than I'd intended, to say thanks and express a few comments on the Zeiss!

 

[Maljunulo]

Well written.

Thank you for relaying what you could actually see, rather than just a list of birds.

How far away was the Kestrel? They are among my favorites, although I haven’t seen one for a while. Ours are very skittish, and really don’t like being looked at.