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(Again) two large Gulls for ID and age - Bucharest, Romania (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Cristian Mihai
- Start date
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi mihai,
interesting material, 2cy get harder and harder as they fade out but i think you got a cachinnans on the left, then the bird in question and then a michahellis to the right.
now on first look the 4cy gull in the middle has this small dark looking eye and a seemingly weak bill but a closer look should be given to that crown line, with the highest point almost above the eye, iris could be paler than in this foggy look, and head and neck give a thick impression which is strange for caspian (especially in the 3rd pic!)
i'd call it a female type, they're often more difficult in structure evaluation.
pro caspian are the very dull yellowish legs, dark iris(?), extended black on bill, a largish mirror on underside of p10.
too many uncertainties on this one to come to a definite conclusion, but most things point to cachinnnans i think, with a strange head shape.
the 3cy type in the last 2 pics is a powerfull michahellis possibly with a deficiency of breeding hormones, unusually pink legs, dark eye and bill without yellow.
interesting material, 2cy get harder and harder as they fade out but i think you got a cachinnans on the left, then the bird in question and then a michahellis to the right.
now on first look the 4cy gull in the middle has this small dark looking eye and a seemingly weak bill but a closer look should be given to that crown line, with the highest point almost above the eye, iris could be paler than in this foggy look, and head and neck give a thick impression which is strange for caspian (especially in the 3rd pic!)
i'd call it a female type, they're often more difficult in structure evaluation.
pro caspian are the very dull yellowish legs, dark iris(?), extended black on bill, a largish mirror on underside of p10.
too many uncertainties on this one to come to a definite conclusion, but most things point to cachinnnans i think, with a strange head shape.
the 3cy type in the last 2 pics is a powerfull michahellis possibly with a deficiency of breeding hormones, unusually pink legs, dark eye and bill without yellow.
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
I would say that the iris for #1 it isn't so dark. It's a problem of light - the sun was on the right-back... but I'm also for cachinnans (70%).
About #2 - I would also say that a 3cy YL Gull it is the only solution.
Cristian
About #2 - I would also say that a 3cy YL Gull it is the only solution.
Cristian
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JANJ
Well-known member
The one in the middle in the first images might be a Caspian Gull but structure is also good for Yellow-legged, big-headed, less slender. It looks dark - possible light effect?
I would prefer a wing view!
The two 2cy looks like Caspians, at least the one at the left, but both have slender bills and rounded heads.
The last one is a Yellow-legged, 3-4cy, note mirror on p10.
JanJ
I would prefer a wing view!
The two 2cy looks like Caspians, at least the one at the left, but both have slender bills and rounded heads.
The last one is a Yellow-legged, 3-4cy, note mirror on p10.
JanJ
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
The bird #1 looked very dark on field, but, as JanJ said I think it was a light effect. Unfortunately there are no pics with the wing pattern...
Anyway, thank you for comments Lou and JanJ.
Anyway, thank you for comments Lou and JanJ.
lou salomon
the birdonist
then it was a steppe gull
kidding. but even for the other gulls, can't be sure, they can be cach , they can be mich, well the left one maybe looks best for caspian. even the 3cy (last one) has some mixed features - shape of large looking head and placement of eye looks best for michahellis - structure is by far more reliable than plumage features, but: it has dark eyes, a weak gonys on a rel. long bill, fleshy legs, striation concentrated on lower hind neck (similar to the "caspian collar"), body looks slim, high chested and boat shaped - all pro caspian, and - if there's a mirror on p10 then we have a problem. a retarded 4cy YLG with underdeveloped bare pare colouring??? i'll put this into the "gull" thread too.
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
"if there's a mirror on p10 then we have a problem"
Unfortunately the only pic with open wings is the pic posted (where we can not see the tip of the wing). I have other 2 or 3 pics with the bird, but these are very similar with the first two posted in this thread (a left view with the bird on the ground). Maybe I will see again these birds, but, to be honest, I don't think so...
Unfortunately the only pic with open wings is the pic posted (where we can not see the tip of the wing). I have other 2 or 3 pics with the bird, but these are very similar with the first two posted in this thread (a left view with the bird on the ground). Maybe I will see again these birds, but, to be honest, I don't think so...
lou salomon
the birdonist
well, we can try to discuss it away here - i see something like a blurry lighter spot in the wingtip (p10) un underside in pics 1&2 and in the right wing in the flight shot. it looks too large for a 3cy caspian although some ind. can have a longish mirror already.
the confusing thing is - when you see this bird on first view it looks so obvious YLG-like but if you dig into singular features - "stilt legs" are to add to the mentioned caspian-like things. no clear flight shot - no solution?
jan, do you have a 4cy-YLG-link (spring) with such a retarded bill, legs and iris?
the confusing thing is - when you see this bird on first view it looks so obvious YLG-like but if you dig into singular features - "stilt legs" are to add to the mentioned caspian-like things. no clear flight shot - no solution?
jan, do you have a 4cy-YLG-link (spring) with such a retarded bill, legs and iris?
JANJ
Well-known member
The subject gull has the look of Yellow-legged - structure fits(!) - head shape/size - bill size - darkish smudge around the eye, all looks good for a YLG. The small white p-tips and what seems like a mirror on p10 indicates a 3-4 cy, with dark bill indicating a 3cy.
Higly variable according to pattern - retarded or advanced, some are difficult to age after 2nd winter.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~daarruud/micha/micha3.html
http://www.mallorcaweb.net/gavines/
JanJ
Higly variable according to pattern - retarded or advanced, some are difficult to age after 2nd winter.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~daarruud/micha/micha3.html
http://www.mallorcaweb.net/gavines/
JanJ
lou salomon
the birdonist
waitaminute! 2nd generation primaries in YLG with a p10 mirror???
lou salomon
the birdonist
i'd like to repeat myself here: jan, do you have a 4cy-YLG-link (spring) with such a retarded bill, legs and iris?
JANJ
Well-known member
Not spring birds but 3cy type 24.11 soon to be 4cy illustrating mirror & white primary tips with dark looking eye. Sweden (Mårten Müller)
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images.aspx?rappomrid=1&art=403
18.11 Sweden (Thomas Svanberg)
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images.aspx?rappomrid=1&art=403
same:
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images.aspx?rappomrid=1&art=403
Although in Oct. note in Ruud,s YLG below the immature like bill on this adult like. Birds with less hormonal activety, non breeders and so on might not develope bright bare parts in spring
http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=73995
Almost everything can happen Lou.
JanJ
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images.aspx?rappomrid=1&art=403
18.11 Sweden (Thomas Svanberg)
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images.aspx?rappomrid=1&art=403
same:
http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images.aspx?rappomrid=1&art=403
Although in Oct. note in Ruud,s YLG below the immature like bill on this adult like. Birds with less hormonal activety, non breeders and so on might not develope bright bare parts in spring
http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=73995
Almost everything can happen Lou.
JanJ
lou salomon
the birdonist
yepp, almost everything. :smoke: and a spectacular female in your last link, haven't seen that!
