AOS to discard patronyms in English names (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Hopkins]

Reminds me of Satanic Nightjar.

Which has been rechristened as Diabolical Nightjar. Can't be seen as promoting satanism, can we?

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

There's already a Garden Emerald, so maybe best to avoid "Garden"? I like the idea of incorporating a "pink" word for this species. There are lots of potential words and they're rarely used in bird names. I guess due to the comparative scarceness of pink in birds.

Magenta, fuschia and cerise all come close and none of them (Magenta Petrel doesn't count) are used in bird names currently.

Why not just pink? Pink-headed Hummingbird.

 

[Xenospiza]

Didn't they wipe out the previous people there, the Moa Hunters, or have I misremembered?

No, that is a discarded theory: Pre-Māori settlement of New Zealand theories - Wikipedia
Maori did however almost annihilate the Moriori: Moriori genocide - Wikipedia
We are such a nice species.

 

[JWN Andrewes]

No, that is a discarded theory: Pre-Māori settlement of New Zealand theories - Wikipedia
Maori did however almost annihilate the Moriori: Moriori genocide - Wikipedia
We are such a nice species.

Thanks for the update, always good to learn. 👍

 

[Mysticete]

Kind of ironic that the announcement was first publicized on twitter, a (formerly) bird-themed social app that is currently trying to rename itself, while everyone ignores the new name because it is stupid.

 

[Mysticete]

Which has been rechristened as Diabolical Nightjar. Can't be seen as promoting satanism, can we?

Hah...I still refuse to use anything other than Satanic Nightjar!

 

[Mysticete]

Waking up this morning with a genuine question:

Will mythological characters be discarded? If so, Calliope Hummingbird should be added too I suppose.

I would hope not. Calliope isn't even a real person...hell wasn't she a nymph? So not even human.

 

[Lerxst]

I would hope not. Calliope isn't even a real person...hell wasn't she a nymph? So not even human.

She was a muse.

 

[pbjosh]

Which has been rechristened as Diabolical Nightjar. Can't be seen as promoting satanism, can we?

When did this happen? Completely missed it... is there precedent for Diabolical?

 

[John Cantelo]

One trouble with descriptive names is that some birds have relatively undistinguished plumage or plumage that is very similar to a close relative tending to make for hyphenated & rather cumbersome neologisms. For example, it's hard to think of an adequate alternative descriptive name for Thekla's Lark, poignantly named by Alfred Brehm for his prematurely deceased sister. Based on plumage, Short-crested Lark has been suggested but seems to me to be of doubtful utility. Names based on a species' distribution are likely to open up another can of worms.

 

[Jacana]

When did this happen? Completely missed it... is there precedent for Diabolical?

Thinking through this. Maybe the only "male" left in a bird name by next year could be Lucifer Hummingbird

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Changing the patronymic common name will not change its Latin equivalent. E.g. Setophaga auduboni will remain and continue to honor the same problematic personality.

 

[kb57]

One trouble with descriptive names is that some birds have relatively undistinguished plumage or plumage that is very similar to a close relative tending to make for hyphenated & rather cumbersome neologisms. For example, it's hard to think of an adequate alternative descriptive name for Thekla's Lark, poignantly named by Alfred Brehm for his prematurely deceased sister, based on plumage. Short-crested Lark has been suggested but seems to me to be of doubtful utility. Names based on a species' distribution are likely to open up another can of worms.

I had to re-read this to make sure you didn't mean Thekla's Lark wasn't named after his recently deceased sister on account of the fact she'd gone a little grey...

 

[Mysticete]

Changing the patronymic common name will not change its Latin equivalent. E.g. Setophaga auduboni will remain and continue to honor the same problematic personality.

Yeah, but stateside a large chunk of the general bird-interested public never pays attention to those.

Although to be honest I suspect most birders in general don't pay much attention or have much information on who a bird is named after.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

.

Although to be honest I suspect most birders in general don't pay much attention or have much information on who a bird is named after.

Your remark about the American birders proves that their French colleagues are hypocrites because they are the first to tell me that Latin names prevail but they are the last to use them.

 

[kb57]

I've posted in the 'other' thread on the merits of this project, in deference to the OP's wishes. Taking this insane process to its logical conclusion, I can't help thinking the AOC should be taking the opportunity to expunge all taxonomically opaque inappropriate names imposed by white European settlers, not just eponyms.
They could start with 'warblers', given the fact that they are totally unrelated to Old World taxa, and think of an alternative name...and get rid of 'redstart' at the same time as an Old English name for an unrelated species. They can keep Whitestarts and Waterthrushes- there must be a suitable indigenous name to apply to Parulidae?

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

I've posted in the 'other' thread on the merits of this project, in deference to the OP's wishes. Taking this insane process to its logical conclusion, I can't help thinking the AOC should be taking the opportunity to expunge all taxonomically opaque inappropriate names imposed by white European settlers, not just eponyms.
They could start with 'warblers', given the fact that they are totally unrelated to Old World taxa, and think of an alternative name...and get rid of 'redstart' at the same time as an Old English name for an unrelated species. They can keep Whitestarts and Waterthrushes- there must be a suitable indigenous name to apply to Parulidae?

Parula ? Already used for the former genus Parula

 

[Lerxst]

Changing the patronymic common name will not change its Latin equivalent. E.g. Setophaga auduboni will remain and continue to honor the same problematic personality.

I will wager that there will be a serious effort to remove eponyms from the Latin as well, at some point. It is instructive to visit the "bird names for birds" website, where you can read the manifesto of the organization that spearheaded the efforts leading to yesterday's news.

From their FAQ, emphasis mine:

What about Latin scientific names? Are you proposing to change those too?

BN4B is currently focused on English common bird names. Binomial scientific names follow a separate process overseen by structures globally recognized to maintain standardization and archiving of species, and the same rules apply to every animal. BN4B isn’t necessarily opposed to scientific names being reviewed and changed, but the function of scientific names is inherently different and stability is crucial for that function.

 

[Xenospiza]

One trouble with descriptive names is that some birds have relatively undistinguished plumage or plumage that is very similar to a close relative tending to make for hyphenated & rather cumbersome neologisms. For example, it's hard to think of an adequate alternative descriptive name for Thekla's Lark, poignantly named by Alfred Brehm for his prematurely deceased sister, based on plumage. Short-crested Lark has been suggested but seems to me to be of doubtful utility. Names based on a species' distribution are likely to open up another can of worms.

These species are a challenge. In South America, you get striated, streaked, striolated, lined, striped etc. to describe similar species which is not helpful at all.

Grey-winged Crested Lark (versus Brown-winged Crested Lark) would point out a plumage difference.

 

[kb57]

I will wager that there will be a serious effort to remove eponyms from the Latin as well, at some point. It is instructive to visit the "bird names for birds" website, where you can read the manifesto of the organization that spearheaded the efforts leading to yesterday's news.

From their FAQ, emphasis mine:

Well at least they concede 'stability is crucial' - given the number of changes in genus names, it is absolutely crucial to retain specific epithets untouched beyond any necessary grammatical adjustment