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APM Telescopes Release Of The APM MS 6x30 Porro Prism Binocular (1 Viewer)

Hermann

Well-known member
Having said all this, here’s my opinion and it’s only my opinion on what APM finally delivered. Visually a very pleasing well constructed made waterproof porro binocular. Quality control with both specimens basically looking identical, having both focuser/hinge tensions the same. Both having nicely darkened barrels with clean tubes.The inside screws that can be seen, also blackened. Lens coatings seem evenly applied with no issues that either of us could see. The overall outside finish very nice, I liked the fake wanta - be leather which is nicely done.
Same with my two specimens. They are also identical, I couldn't find any differences no matter how hard I looked. The finish is very nice indeed, really impressive. In fact, I've handled some alpha binoculars with a worse finish in the past few years. I couldn't find any weaknesses.
Optically we both thought they were very sharp, giving a easy nice bright view with neural colors. When I mean neutral colors , I mean you see what you would see with your naked eyes. Maybe with a Alpha porro the colors would pop out, being darker or richer but these are only a $200 plus porro.
I agree. Once again, no real weaknesses, far better than I expected. These are not flatfield binoculars, but the sweetspot is more than sufficient. The field is curved, something I prefer over a flat field, especially when viewing at medium distances. No "funny" distortions. Colours are neutral, even in a direct comparison to a Habicht 7x42 with the latest coatings, my reference porro binocular, and definitely more neutral than, say, the Nikon 8x32 SE with its warm tone. In fact, the views though the APM and the Habicht are quite similar. The Habicht may still have got a slight edge, with slightly more saturated colours. However, that difference is small.

Straylight is well controlled, not quite on the same level as the Habicht that is almost perfect in that respect. In some situations I could see some veiling glare when viewing against the light. It never got to a level where I found it disturbing in any way. There are several alpha binoculars that have far worse straylight control.
Handling very comfortable, having a nice feel that they will not slip out of your hands if wet. Finally the weight …. for me just right. They do not come across as being made of plastic and given their really nice looking appearance and that they have some heft gives one a sense of a very well made binocular.
Agreed. I personally prefer the wider grip with porros, I find I can hold porros better than roofs. The weight is ~635 gr. with a different strap and a better rainguard than the one supplied, and rubber rings around the objective lenses. That's fine with me. They're right in my "ideal weight range" - between 500 and 700 gr.

Things I dislike so far:
  • The APM hangs at an angle, i.e. it doesn't nestle flat against my chest. That may take some getting used to. (Attachment 1)
  • The objective rings are not protected by some rubber coating, so I put some rubber rings on the objective. (Attachment 2). Problem solved. Highly recommended.

Sorry about the poor quality of the photos.

Hermann
 

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gcole

Well-known member
Same with my two specimens. They are also identical, I couldn't find any differences no matter how hard I looked. The finish is very nice indeed, really impressive. In fact, I've handled some alpha binoculars with a worse finish in the past few years. I couldn't find any weaknesses.

I agree. Once again, no real weaknesses, far better than I expected. These are not flatfield binoculars, but the sweetspot is more than sufficient. The field is curved, something I prefer over a flat field, especially when viewing at medium distances. No "funny" distortions. Colours are neutral, even in a direct comparison to a Habicht 7x42 with the latest coatings, my reference porro binocular, and definitely more neutral than, say, the Nikon 8x32 SE with its warm tone. In fact, the views though the APM and the Habicht are quite similar. The Habicht may still have got a slight edge, with slightly more saturated colours. However, that difference is small.

Straylight is well controlled, not quite on the same level as the Habicht that is almost perfect in that respect. In some situations I could see some veiling glare when viewing against the light. It never got to a level where I found it disturbing in any way. There are several alpha binoculars that have far worse straylight control.

Agreed. I personally prefer the wider grip with porros, I find I can hold porros better than roofs. The weight is ~635 gr. with a different strap and a better rainguard than the one supplied, and rubber rings around the objective lenses. That's fine with me. They're right in my "ideal weight range" - between 500 and 700 gr.

Things I dislike so far:
  • The APM hangs at an angle, i.e. it doesn't nestle flat against my chest. That may take some getting used to. (Attachment 1)
  • The objective rings are not protected by some rubber coating, so I put some rubber rings on the objective. (Attachment 2). Problem solved. Highly recommended.

Sorry about the poor quality of the photos.

Hermann
Hey Hermann … I should have just waited for your more detailed opinion of these, it would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation from my slow/tedious inadequate skills using my IPad to get my comments to this discussion. Getting to your comment about wanting some rubber coating protection on the objective end of the APM 6x30 … Here’s a little secret for solving those type of issues. Here in the USA, a glue sold at most any hardware store called GORILLA ..clear gorilla glue no foam can be used as a protective moisture resistant sealant when applied to the surface of most anything. When dried it has a clear hard rubber like feel. It will protect the under surface from getting scratched and preserve paint coatings from peeling and fading as well. I have used it many times. Here’s a picture of a walking stick showing its surface which I just finished …. After I sanded and painted the wood I applied two coating with a fine brush over the entire project. It dries slow, no rush to get application on and gives it a nice professional look showing no brush strokes with a non slippery feel when touched. I am going to apply a coating over my pairs fake leather part to stop any future cracking, peeling or fading while allowing the leather look to remain the same/like new with no signs of handling.
 

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gcole

Well-known member
Good to hear, very positive outcome after all. Well done APM.
Yes, I would highly recommend anyone here in the USA to do business with this company. From their quick on line email responses with their customer service to ordering/receiving your order.
 

Hermann

Well-known member
Getting to your comment about wanting some rubber coating protection on the objective end of the APM 6x30 … Here’s a little secret for solving those type of issues. Here in the USA, a glue sold at most any hardware store called GORILLA ..clear gorilla glue no foam can be used as a protective moisture resistant sealant when applied to the surface of most anything. When dried it has a clear hard rubber like feel. It will protect the under surface from getting scratched and preserve paint coatings from peeling and fading as well.
Thank you for your suggestion. I'll check if I can get Gorilla glue over here. However, for the time being I'm quite happy with my rubber rings. These were widely available for binculars of different sizes (30mm, 40mm and 50mm) and were used a lot on the objectives of unarmoured binoculars. Quite useful actually, I use them for instance also on my Nikon ED50 and my Habicht 10x40.

Hermann
 

yarrellii

Well-known member
Supporter
Gcole, Hermann, many thanks for these first insights and hands-on experiences. I've been interesting in this since I first read about them (and even also about their 8x30 sibling), so seeing they've finally come true is great. Take your time and keep those experiences coming.

Things I dislike so far:
  • The APM hangs at an angle, i.e. it doesn't nestle flat against my chest. That may take some getting used to. (Attachment 1)
From your picture it looks very much like the "tilt issue" with the 8x30 Nikon EII, which is quite annoying, really. I haven't really found a solution for that. It works better with a pretty short strap (or else, letting it hang really low, somehow the tilt matches my belly :D), and it gets better with a Rick Young harness (left, hanging free like with a strap; right, harness-like).

NikonE2_8x30_RYUBH_Tilt.jpg

But then, IMHO the whole point of a small and "nimble" pair of binoculars like the 6x30 APM or the EII is to be there in a comfortable way without needing "complicated solutions" like a harness (but that's probably just me).

Thanks again!
 

limonabe

Member
Mine arrived in the mail a few hours ago and I am in agreement with all the positive comments here. The coatings look beautiful. To hold a modern, centerfocus porro of this quality makes me very happy. I’ll buy every model APM puts out!
 

gcole

Well-known member
Your really going to get a kick out of the latest developments regarding my desire to get my hands on these ….. going back to a little over a week ago, Hermann remarks(On Oct 1) he got his pair in 2 Days direct from APM. I am now thinking about a week later with no word on my second order put into Lunt Solar Systems, so I contact APM direct yesterday. They are in stock will ship today. This was early in the AM my time here in Florida. Tired of waiting not sure if or when I will actually get the pair from Lunt Solar System, I place a order with APM direct in Germany. APM emailed me back same day my order shipped with tracking number. Lunt Solar Systems emailed me about a hr later … they shipped my order also. Before I could cancel my order with Lunt … I now have two pairs supposedly arriving this week possibly tomorrow. One pair I really did not need, two pair means a Forum member here is really going to get a good deal when they are listed in the classified section for sale as New Open Box !
The One Xtra pair has already been sold. Thanks again Mark. It was a pleasure to meet up in person. Here is what APM has finally brought to market. I gave my opinion of what I thought of the Binoculars but forgot to mention the accessories included : Ocular lens rubber eyepiece protectors, adequate and very easy to put on but I would have preferred a one piece. The objective covers I thought were very nicely thought out, nicely done and will not come off accidentally. The binocular case also very nice. Very well padded with a clip on carry strap. Not to tight or loose fitting when putting in or taking the 6x30 binoculars out. The binocular strap also wide enough and nicely padded. My only negative thought of the binocular case … I dislike the color. Who’s idea was this ? Army color green for Black binoculars ! Must have been a financial decision, the color Black must have been an upgrade. Even a gray color would have been more acceptable to me but Green. The binoculars themselves have no serial number and no identification anywhere stating where these were made. They could have been marked Made IN Japan and based on how they look visually, I would have had no reason to think other wise.
 

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Hermann

Well-known member
I gave my opinion of what I thought of the Binoculars but forgot to mention the accessories included : Ocular lens rubber eyepiece protectors, adequate and very easy to put on but I would have preferred a one piece ...
The accessories: I normally don't care about the acessories at all. I usually prefer to use different straps and so on that fit my needs:
  • Rainguard: It's too tight to put on and take off quickly. No problem, there are plenty of suitable rainguards on the market. I use an old Nikon rainguard.
  • Strap: It's ok. I find it a bit wide, and for a binocular this weight I prefer a contoured strap. Found an old Zeiss strap in my collection of accessories.
  • Case: Decent quality, good for protection when travelling. Fairly tight, that's nice. I don't care what its colour is.
The binoculars themselves have no serial number and no identification anywhere stating where these were made. They could have been marked Made IN Japan and based on how they look visually,I would have had no reason to think other wise.
As per the review on Cloudynights they're made in China. And yes, production quality of many Chinese products is extremely high. Nikon, for instance, has two of its top telephoto lenses (f4/300 PF, f5.6/500 PF) produced in China.

Hermann
 

limonabe

Member
You know, if these are waterproof as indicated (I haven’t dunked mine just yet, but I will eventually) then maybe the manufacturer can teach Swarovski how to build a light-turning focuser on their porros! The APM focuser is way smoother than either of my Habichts.
 
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gcole

Well-known member
In my initial opinion I found the Ocular rubber eye lens covers to be adequate/easy to put on but to take them on and off might not be fast enough for some. The problem for me and many others who wear eye glasses, need the rubber eye guards which come on the APM 6x30 rolled over(down) to be able to use while our glasses are on. This presents a problem, now the rubber ocular lens cover will not fit(not large enough)over the rolled down rubber eye guards. After looking for some other alternatives on line, I remembered I had an extra pair of objectives covers for the Meopta Meostar 8x32. I find they work great, they fit snug enough over the rolled down rubber ocular lens guard and the attachment end just slips over the whole eye piece assembly. Which means if the cover (cap) did happen to come up off the eyepiece for some reason accidentally, they will not fall off the binocular and get lost. Plus with the way the attachment ring side of the rubber ocular lens cover slide over and down both individual eye piece barrels, the ring attachments being a little larger in diameter leaves enough room to travel up/down when the binocular is focused. This leaves the upper part of each eye piece that moves not to be restricted, while keeping everything on and not falling off. The first photo shows each individual rubber ocular lens cover on attached, with the binoculars ocular lens guard rolled down for eye glass use hanging off each lens barrel. The second photo side shot shows rubber cover snugly on. The third photo shows the top view while the rubber ocular covers are on. I tested this set up while wearing the binocular with strap around my neck. Each individual rubber cover is easily, very quickly taken off or put on. Even when the binoculars top part tilt forward at an angle the rubber ocular covers remain on and when taken off left to be hanging while walking or standing still they will not come off the binocular and fall to the ground. Many other binocular lens ocular rain covers might work also. I checked on line, these Meopta Meostar 32mm covers run about $8.00 dollars apiece in case some one wants to try these out them selves who wear glasses.
 

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pat mitchel

Well-known member
A note of caution as to the quality control of the 6x30's. One poster on cloudy nights binocular forum had a sample arrive that when used, needed to have 5D adjustment from "0" to the diopter side to achieve 20/20 parity. Something likely amiss in objective lens placement slipped by QC. See post #21 of this thread. Regards, Pat
 

gcole

Well-known member
A note of caution as to the quality control of the 6x30's. One poster on cloudy nights binocular forum had a sample arrive that when used, needed to have 5D adjustment from "0" to the diopter side to achieve 20/20 parity. Something likely amiss in objective lens placement slipped by QC. See post #21 of this thread. Regards, Pat
I saw that remark, not a happy camper. He/She listed 3 things they did not like … Diopter off but still being able to focus that tube. I would have been concerned also. I would have sent it back for a replacement but apparently there is a problem because it came from Germany Direct. That was their decision to buy out of country. It happened to me with equipment much more expensive. Yes it sucks … it is what it is. Maybe not being able to be returned now with free replacement ?. 2nd problem … apparently eye relief is to minimal for use with their glasses. Mine work just fine with my glasses. Third problem, yes those rubber ocular lens covers are on the stiff side and one must use two fingers to keep them from coming off while rolling them down. When mine rolled down and firmly set they do not come off and if these did I can not see it happening easily. If they did I would just put them back on. If one wanted to, the rubber eye guard could easily be afixed permanently. I am actually keeping them down now all the time, no worry about up/ down all the time since I solved my problem with finding a lens cover which will fit over/on snugly with no problem. It will be interesting to see how many negative discussions pop up here on this forum or others from unhappy purchasers based on poor Quality Control. The other issues seem to be personal preferences. The unhappy poster on Cloudy Nights is the only one I have seen so far. The only note of Caution I see here …. If you do no not live in Germany, purchase these from a authorized dealer with a good free return or exchange policy for those binoculars that could be defective/have quality control issues.
 
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Samuele

Member
Italy
I find it rather unusual that the same user has had the same problem with other APM binoculars.
Maybe it's just a coincidence or maybe that user makes some mistake in diopter calibration.
Since these binoculars are 6x, they have a great depth of focus so it is not easy to adjust the right diopter appropriately, also due to the eye accommodation.
I only managed it in the evening using a point light as a target.

Sorry for my English
 

Canip

Well-known member
I have two samples of the 6x30 (one for vacation home). In one of them, the diopter setting „zero“ corresponds to the „0“ mark, in the other, it is off the mark by -3.5 dpt.
This and a few other findings indicate that quality control unfortunately is still a bit of an issue at KUO, and that APM does not seem to fully check the binos before dispatching.
Nevertheless, the 6x30 APM is still a nice little bino and gives me much pleasure on daily dog walks. It’s image is not perfect, but you can‘t expect this when you consider price. The Kowa 6.5x33 beats it with a clearly wider field, but it costs twice as much.

Canip
 

Samuele

Member
Italy
I have two samples of the 6x30 (one for vacation home). In one of them, the diopter setting „zero“ corresponds to the „0“ mark, in the other, it is off the mark by -3.5 dpt.
....

Canip

Maybe it is a fairly simple issue to fix.
If we remove the rubber hood of the right eyepiece we will discover three small screws which I suppose are used to lock the diopter adjustment ring. It would probably be enough to loosen those screws to reposition the reference setting in the center.
Ludes should be asked if it is that the procedure and if they authorize it to be used without the warranty being invalidated.
 

pat mitchel

Well-known member
Canip; Given the choice of buying the less expensive one , knowing full well what the differences are to the more expensive Kowa, and "settle" for the APM or would you accept the financial hit a and take the Kowa? You can't have both in this scenario.....is it a even balance or clear answer? Regards, Pat
 

Canip

Well-known member
Canip; Given the choice of buying the less expensive one , knowing full well what the differences are to the more expensive Kowa, and "settle" for the APM or would you accept the financial hit a and take the Kowa? You can't have both in this scenario.....is it a even balance or clear answer? Regards, Pat
Pat,

The answer may actually not be that clear. Both the APM and the Kowa have their pros and cons.
If you are a die-hard porro fan like e.g. forum member Hermann, the APM is a sensible choice and I guess you would not regret it. 9.3 degrees of FOV are nice, central sharpness is very good, edge sharpness very acceptable.
The Kowa scores with an even wider FOV (and comparable central and edge sharpness), the difference is noticeable. On the other hand, panning is slightly less „straightforward“ with the Kowa, due to its special distortion characteristics (mustache type?); it bothered me a bit in the beginning, but now I got used to it, and I enjoy the Kowa.
Today, if I only could have one, it would probably be the Kowa. If this were outside my budget, I would happily buy the APM.

Canip
 
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Colombia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Colombia

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