Are you Going to buy the new Zeiss Conquest HDX Binoculars? (1 Viewer)

[A2GG]

. Never trust an AI on a complex topic ...

… and birdforum because I learned all that stuff about coatings from here over the years.

 

[GrampaTom]

Are you going to buy the new Zeiss Conquest HDX binoculars? I am having a hard time deciding if they are worth the upgrade. The optics haven't been changed that much outside of a field flattener with the FOV remaining the same, and It is questionable if they have changed the glass quality or coatings. The 8x42's are a few ounces lighter with a new magnesium frame, but the 8x32's weight hasn't changed much at all. They have a slightly modernized design with new armor, a new case, better eye cups and tethered objective covers, but are those changes worth the almost $400 difference over what you can get the older Zeiss Conquest HD for now that it is discontinued and heavily discounted. I am not sure. Are these upgrades worth the difference in price to you?

Worth the upgrade? The old Conquest was an approximate 1000 dollar binocular (depending). The new one is a 1000 dollar bino. 1K by the way being a proper "price point." You're writing as if the recent pipe line purging prices somehow represented what Conquests used to sell for ongoing, rather than a short term tool used to rid the channel of distribution of old stock to avoid a mess, if the new landed on top of the old in terms of channel inventory.

The question ought to be mebbe,

Are you Going to buy the new Zeiss Conquest HDX Binoculars, with their yet to be fully understood improvements over the old Conquest, for the same price?​

Actually though isn't it a bit soon for this? There's so much we don't know yet. A bit of advertising copy hardly answers the questions being posed on the several threads discussing the HDX. Would not think this question no matter how posed, can be answered without some hands and eyes on time by more than one of us...

Given the so far known list of upgrades, the announced effective no price change, the fact that they came out with 42s, 32s and 56s all at once and the cost of the recent old inventory purge, it seems clear Zeiss wants to protect their presence in this price point. This is not about BF members. We are not the target market.

 

[Dennis Mau]

AFAIK it's the combination of different glass types in combination with the design of the optical train.

But I may be wrong, you'd need to ask Henry, Holger or Kimmo.

Hermann

I think you are correct. I don't think coatings affect CA much, if at all. They are more important for transmission and color balance. Thanks for the answer!

 

[Dennis Mau]

if i was a seller of optics i would 100% say it's worth purchasing another pair of binoculars

I totally agree! Haha.

 

[Dennis Mau]

I will not buy a pair. I would though I were in that market. That $400 doesn't bother me a bit.
The previous Zeiss objective covers were the worst I have ever seen. I don't use them anyway, so it is never a consideration of mine, but they were really bad.
The weight savings on the 42s is worth some money to me though.
Get them Denco! I want to read your thoughts.

Don't tempt me! I have the one piece objective covers on my SF 10x32, and I am not sure if I like it or not. I don't like the string to hold it on, but it is kind of nice to take it off and on with one motion instead of having to take two separate objective covers off. Likewise, I agree, weight savings is always nice. Thanks for your response!

 

[Dennis Mau]

Polychromatic light is basically just "normal" light that always consists of different wavelengths, i.e. white light, in contrast to monochromatic light that consists of only one wavelength (and thus one colour). A single layer phase-coating can only correct one wavelength, so the problems caused by interference (e.g. loss of resolution and loss of contrast) persist for the other wavelengths. If you add more layers you can correct more wavelengths, thus you get less interference, i.e. a better result (image).

Wrong once again. It's not dispersion that's the problem, it's interference. Never trust an AI on a complex topic ...

Hermann

Nice posts, Herman. Interesting! I have heard you can't always trust AI and this proves it. Thanks for the post!

 

[Dennis Mau]

thanks for the info. So I assume good ED/FL lenses clean up most CA. I always thought phase coating help reduce it to some degree.

about color bias in the image: if AR multi-coatings don’t influence colors in the image to some degree then how do manufacturers optimize the colors to achieve the type of color balance they want? Is it only from the type or quality of prism glasses and their transmission values of light?

So it is just ED glass that controls CA and nothing else? What about the optical design of the binocular? I would think the number of ED lenses in the optical train, with more being better, would aid CA control. I always thought the coatings influenced color balance to a degree also. You learn something new every day on Bird Forum. Beth, you're becoming a binocular expert.

 

[Dennis Mau]

Worth the upgrade? The old Conquest was an approximate 1000 dollar binocular (depending). The new one is a 1000 dollar bino. 1K by the way being a proper "price point." You're writing as if the recent pipe line purging prices somehow represented what Conquests used to sell for ongoing, rather than a short term tool used to rid the channel of distribution of old stock to avoid a mess, if the new landed on top of the old in terms of channel inventory.

The question ought to be mebbe,

Are you Going to buy the new Zeiss Conquest HDX Binoculars, with their yet to be fully understood improvements over the old Conquest, for the same price?​

Actually though isn't it a bit soon for this? There's so much we don't know yet. A bit of advertising copy hardly answers the questions being posed on the several threads discussing the HDX. Would not think this question no matter how posed, can be answered without some hands and eyes on time by more than one of us...

Given the so far known list of upgrades, the announced effective no price change, the fact that they came out with 42s, 32s and 56s all at once and the cost of the recent old inventory purge, it seems clear Zeiss wants to protect their presence in this price point. This is not about BF members. We are not the target market.

You don't think BF members are the target market for the Zeiss Conquest HDX? I would think these binoculars would have a lot of appeal for BF members and birders in general. Do you think they are more targeted at hunter's? Thanks for the post!

 

[Dennis Mau]

AFAIK it's the combination of different glass types in combination with the design of the optical train.

But I may be wrong, you'd need to ask Henry, Holger or Kimmo.

Hermann

Yes, with more ED lenses being more effective in CA control. Hence, the term doublet and triplet when referring to Apochromatic telescopes.

 

[Dennis Mau]

Here is a cutaway of the new Zeiss HDX 8x42 compared to a Zeiss FL 8x42 and Zeiss FL 8x32. Can you see any obvious differences in the optical train that would indicate if one or the other would be better at CA control, or overall how do they compare? I couldn't find a cutaway of the older Conquest HD.

.

 

[Hermann]

thanks for the info. So I assume good ED/FL lenses clean up most CA. I always thought phase coating help reduce it to some degree.

ED or fluorite lenses in combination with the design of the optical train and a suitable combination of different glass types in the optical train.

about color bias in the image: if AR multi-coatings don’t influence colors in the image to some degree then how do manufacturers optimize the colors to achieve the type of color balance they want? Is it only from the type or quality of prism glasses and their transmission values of light?

The lens coatings do influence the image colours. Just the phase-coating doesn't.

Hermann

 

[Dennis Mau]

ED or fluorite lenses in combination with the design of the optical train and a suitable combination of different glass types in the optical train.

The lens coatings do influence the image colours. Just the phase-coating doesn't.

Hermann

Can you tell anything from the cutaways, as far as, how many fluorite lenses the HDX has compared to the FL for CA control?

 

[Hermann]

Can you tell anything from the cutaways, as far as, how many fluorite lenses the HDX has compared to the FL for CA control?

No, I can't. And it's not the number of ED/fluorite lenses that counts, it's the design of the optical train as a whole. So I don't really care anyway. What counts is the end result, not how it was achieved.

Hermann

 

[A2GG]

ED or fluorite lenses in combination with the design of the optical train and a suitable combination of different glass types in the optical train.

The lens coatings do influence the image colours. Just the phase-coating doesn't.

Hermann

Ok, this I know already. I misinterpreted earlier and thought you were telling me I was incorrect about this. I already knew phase coating doesn’t affect colors (but lens multicoatings can), but I always thought the phase coatings corrected CA to a degree.

You’re claiming phase coatings don’t at all correct for CA but I have to say I’m still skeptical of this. I’d like some confirmation from some other experts here about this. The sources you referenced were in German. Also the phase coat section in the wiki article doesn’t mention CA control but this doesn’t confirm for me that it’s not related. Do you have any source that explicitly says, in English, that phase coatings don’t correct for CA at all?

 

[A2GG]

So it is just ED glass that controls CA and nothing else? What about the optical design of the binocular? I would think the number of ED lenses in the optical train, with more being better, would aid CA control. I always thought the coatings influenced color balance to a degree also. You learn something new every day on Bird Forum. Beth, you're becoming a binocular expert.

the lens multicoatings do influence color. the back and forth between me and Herman confused this. Herman was saying phase coatings on the prism glass don’t influence color balance and this is correct. However the AR coatings on the lenses can influence color balance. this stuff I already knew. I’m only unsure now about phase coatings and CA control.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Doug. Do you think they are worth $400 difference? When are you going to be getting them in stock? Do you have any prices yet? Thanks for your comment!

It's a $300.00 difference from the now reduced price of the Conquest HD's, however, they are the same price as the HD's were before the new HDX came along. In comparison to other $1,000 units they are supposedly noticeably superior
I have not seen one yet, just read a side by side comparison of the specs and build plus what I've been told by my Zeiss contacts.

 

[Dennis Mau]

It's a $300.00 difference from the now reduced price of the Conquest HD's, however, they are the same price as the HD's were before the new HDX came along. In comparison to other $1,000 units they are supposedly noticeably superior
I have not seen one yet, just read a side by side comparison of the specs and build plus what I've been told by my Zeiss contacts.

When are you going to get them in stock? Thanks!

 

[Dennis Mau]

the lens multicoatings do influence color. the back and forth between me and Herman confused this. Herman was saying phase coatings on the prism glass don’t influence color balance and this is correct. However the AR coatings on the lenses can influence color balance. this stuff I already knew. I’m only unsure now about phase coatings and CA control.

I don't know, either. Would one of our resident experts can pipe up about that? Thanks!

 

[Dennis Mau]

No, I can't. And it's not the number of ED/fluorite lenses that counts, it's the design of the optical train as a whole. So I don't really care anyway. What counts is the end result, not how it was achieved.

Hermann

I agree. It is amazing how many lenses are in modern binoculars. It must be quite complicated to design these newer roof prism binoculars. Thanks!

 

[A2GG]

I don't know, either. Would one of our resident experts pipe up about that? Thanks!

the ED or FL glass should be the most effective at reducing CA and a longer focal length helps. Herman is probably right about the phase coatings not having any part in reducing CA, but info all over the web conflicts. Yes, I too hope others can confirm a yes or no about this.
I don't read any of the technical books on optics like Herman so he probably has the real knowledge on this.