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Baader Hyperion Universal Mark IV Zoom (1 Viewer)

henry link

Well-known member
Thanks for that information, David. I've been putting off buying a Mark III in hopes that a Mark IV might be coming soon. An adapter for Kowa scopes would be a welcome addition, especially if my hope for a next generation Kowa 95-100mm Fluorite scope comes true sometime soon.

Henry
 

DRodrigues

Well-known member
Atention to potential Zeiss users!

I have recommended the MarkIV to someone buying a used Zeiss Diascope without zoom and he alerted me that the Mark IV no longer connects directly to Diascopes...
I have checked the Mark IV publicity and it no longer mentions the Zeiss scopes. So someone thinking of using a MIV on Zeiss must know that will need to purchase also a Baader adapter 1,25" to Zeiss bayonet.
 

dipped

Well-known member

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mayoayo

Well-known member
The mark IV still attaches to synta scopes,like the celestron ultima series..what was the system previous versions used to attach to zeiss?
 

henry link

Well-known member
The earlier Baader Hyperion Zooms attached directly to the Diascope body using internal M45 threads. See here under "Telescopic Connectors":

http://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/hyperion-zoom-mark-iii-8-24mm-okular-(¼"--2").html

The M45 threads appear to be gone on the Mark IV. I was hoping for an adapter similar to the M45 that would allow direct attachment of the Hyperion to a Kowa body using the Kowa M55 accessory thread.

I find the image through a Kowa 883 to be quite a bit brighter when using the Hyperion Zoom rather than the Kowa 25-60x. If I bought a Kowa I would buy the body only to combine with my Hyperion, so I've considered ordering the 1.25" adapter in dipped's post just in case. I'm not sure, but I think it's an aftermarket part, not an official Kowa part, so its future availability might not be certain.

Henry
 
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dipped

Well-known member
I've considered ordering the Kowa 1.25" adapter in dipped's post for possible future use since I don't currently own a Kowa scope. Am I right in thinking it's an aftermarket part, not an official Kowa part?

Henry

Henry

The 1.25" adapter is made by Kowa. It's pictured in a small booklet by Kowa, with Pure Experience on the cover and Sporting Optics/Product Guide on the inside. They call it a KOWA-SYSTEM Astronomy adapter.

Until I leafed through the booklet recently I didn't know of its existence.
 

Torchepot

Well-known member
United Kingdom
I find the image through a Kowa 883 to be quite a bit brighter when using the Hyperion Zoom rather than the Kowa 25-60x.

Henry

Interesting Henry,

I've never seen anyone using a Hyperion zoom in the field, can you help clear up a couple of queries?

Can you say how the zoom range compares if it was coupled with the 883?

Also is there a noticeable difference in FOV?

What about resolution at equivalent magnifications?

Have I understood correctly that the top of the eyepiece revolves on the Hyperion when changing focus (or maybe zoom?) ruling out the use of a winged eyepiece shade?

Cheers

Phil
 

Torchepot

Well-known member
United Kingdom
Been trying to work out the zoom ratio on an 88mm scope and I think it comes out as 18x-55x?

If that's right then coupled with the 1.6 extender the resulting 29x-88x zoom range looks very useful.
 
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dipped

Well-known member
Been trying to work out the zoom ratio on an 88mm scope and I think it comes out as 18x-55x?

If that's right then coupled with the 1.6 extender the resulting 29x-88x zoom range looks very useful.

Phil

I make the focal length of the scope 510mm so the baader zoom gives 21.25x-63.75.
 

mayoayo

Well-known member
I was trying to figure the fl of the 883 recently,and did the equation of multiplying the nomenclature in the eyepieces (usually kowa name their eyepieces after their focal lenght )by the granted magnification...510 is the number that results ...also seems like the 77 shares the focal lenght,because magnification is equal in both scopes.
The difference in brightness (or correction) between 510 and 465 seems little ,and in both cases makes a pretty fast scope,justifying the use of fluorite,in kowa's own tradition.
I did modify the hyperion for my 823 and am very happy with the eyepiece.with the price difference in mind ,an investment in the right adapter ring ,custom made by a miller,would be a good idea for those wanting an alternative wide zoom for the 88...I compared my 823/hyperion side by side with the atx65 last week,and FOV differences were not too evident..at 20 mm the hyperion is a tad compromised in that regard ,and also optically ,to my eyes,but still usable
 
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Torchepot

Well-known member
United Kingdom
Obviously not quite as simple as I thought to calculate the zoom ratio but in either case a useful range. I'm not sure why you would need to have an adapter machined though - doesn't the one in post #4 do the job?

It would be very interesting to see a side by side comparison of the Kowa 25x-60x zoom with the Hyperion mkIV on the 883.
 
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dipped

Well-known member
Kowa's eyepieces TE-17W 30x, gives a focal length of 510 and the TE-20H 25xLER gives 500mm so I think it safe to assume the focal length of the scope is between 500 and 510mm short of direct communication from Kowa to the contrary.
 

henry link

Well-known member
If Kowa is going to sell a 1,25" adapter for the 880/770 scopes they should provide the scope focal length so purchaser's of the adapter will know what magnifications can be expected. As far as I can tell they haven't done that.

I borrowed a friend's 883 yesterday to try to determine the focal length, using two methods.

1) I digiscoped my neighbor's solar panels (about 400' away) through the Kowa scope at 60x and then digiscoped the same target through my Takahashi Sky-90 with the Kowa zoom eyepiece mounted on it. The Tak has a nominal FL of 500mm. The focus was set about 2mm outside of infinity focus making the true FL about 502mm (provided the nominal FL is correct). When the photos were enlarged on the computer I couldn't measure any difference at all in the width of the solar panel in the centers of the fields of the two photos, indicating a FL of 502mm for the Kowa.

2) I digiscoped the same target through the Tak using a Zeiss Diascope zoom eyepiece set to 60x. Zeiss' specification for the the 85mm Diascope FL is 502mm. I found the magnification through the Zeiss eyepiece to be a little less than 2% higher than the magnification through the Kowa eyepiece, indicating that the Kowa eyepiece has a focal length at the 60x setting a little less than 2% longer than the Zeiss eyepiece, meaning the Kowa scope FL would be a little less than 2% longer than the Zeiss Diascope, or around 510mm.

2% disagreement is not too bad for this kind of backyard work with real world specimens and leaves the probable FL of the Kowa scope somewhere between 500 and 510mm, exactly where we thought it was.
 
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Torchepot

Well-known member
United Kingdom
Looking at the Teleskop-express site that dipped linked to in post #4

They quote the 25x-60x Kowa zoom at 699 Euros

The 1.6x extender at 329 Euros

The Hyperion mkIV zoom at 239 Euros or 325 Euros with the 2.25x Barlow included

And the Astro adapter to connect the Hyperion to the 880 series at 25 Euros

As far as I can see this means that for less than the price of the Kowa 25x-60x zoom it's possible to buy the Hyperion mkIV zoom (with or without the 2.25x Barlow), the astro adapter and the Kowa 1.6 extender!

An attractive proposition financially and in terms of zoom range (assuming that the FL is 510mm) a choice of 21.25x-63.75x as dipped said in post #11
With the 1.6 extender I make that 34x -102x
With the 2.25x Barlow (if it's compatible with the 880 series?) 47.8x - 143.4x

The combination of mkIV and 1.6x extender makes for a particularly useful zoom range for my purposes - so now the question is how to find a way to make a hands on comparison.

Looking at mayoayo's post #13 it would seem that perhaps the wide end of the zoom might be a an area of concern?
 

DRodrigues

Well-known member
Since Kowa released the Lens/Scope I estimated the Kowa 88 focal length as 455mm - the Lens/Scope is stated as 500mm but with the 11WZ the magnifications indicated by Kowa is 28-56x -just did the proportion for the 25-60x of the 88 models.
Being 455mm, the Baader will result on 19-57x, that can explain the light difference Henry noticed, specially at lower zoom position.

Torchepot,
One of the not so good detail of the Baader is that the extremity of the ep at the observer side turns as you zoom, so not good for winged eyecups or for those that prefer to be in contact with the ep...
I also find the useful eye-relief a little bit short for my eye-glasses but there are other eye-glasses users that have no problems.

I never tested a 11WZ but use a X95 that have similar AFOVs and can tell you that there is a much significant difference, specially at low mags - you can have an idea of it at http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescopes.htm#Test_of_my_present_preferred_cr-telescopes
Beware that to reach focus in a spotting scope with the Baader Hyperion 2.25x Barlow you should need a 1.25" tube since the adapter coming with the barlow has larger diameter. Much less expensive than using the Kowa extender would be to use a barlow similar to the one mention at http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescopes.htm#Test_of_a_1.6x_magnifier - is sold by several astro brands as 1.5-2x barlow. The Kowa should result on better image quality but the cost is incomparable. However just testing you can conclude on this last solution quality...;)

Just remembered that with the adapter http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescopes.htm#Swarovski_X_derivations I could use the Kowa prism unit with the X95 lens module... :-O
 

henry link

Well-known member
Since Kowa released the Lens/Scope I estimated the Kowa 88 focal length as 455mm - the Lens/Scope is stated as 500mm but with the 11WZ the magnifications indicated by Kowa is 28-56x -just did the proportion for the 25-60x of the 88 models.
Being 455mm, the Baader will result on 19-57x, that can explain the light difference Henry noticed, specially at lower zoom position.

Hi David,

Kowa has added some confusion to our efforts to figure out the focal length of the 88/77mm scopes by leaving us with the impression (without explicitly stating it) that the magnifications of the various Kowa eyepieces when used in combination with the prism unit on the Lens/Scope are based on a 500mm focal length. I freely admit that I'm guessing, but I'm reasonably certain that the Lens/Scope prism unit uses a Barlow/Smyth type compensating lens to extend the objective focal length to about 550-560mm, thus compensating for the extra back focus imposed by the prism and making it possible for the eyepieces to be brought to infinity focus. I think that's why the 88/77mm eyepieces produce about 10% higher magnification when used on the Lens/Scope. Look at the diagram of the prism unit in the link below. You can see that there is a lens at the front of prism unit. In the 500mm telephoto configuration that lens is not present.

http://www.kowa.eu/lenses/datasheets/TP556.pdf

I'm pretty sure the measurement methods I used today to arrive at a focal length of about 505mm +/- 1% for the 883 are sound, but I'm open to suggestions for why they are wrong.

Henry
 
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Torchepot

Well-known member
United Kingdom
Thanks David I had read somewhere that the eyepiece part in contact with the user (or closest to) rotates when zooming - so thanks for confirming that.

My interest in using the Hyperion mkIV on the 883 would not be primarily to save money (though that's always handy). It's just that I wonder if it might be optically equal to - or superior to the Kowa 25x-60x zoom, with the advantage of a slightly bigger zoom range. Henry mentioned that he found it noticeably brighter and that piqued my interest.

It sounds like the dedicated 2.25x Barlow is not suitable and if the Kowa 1.6 extender is likely to be optically superior to alternatives then that would probably be the route I would take.

Cheers

Phil
 
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