Best 8x bins for $200 (1 Viewer)

[dries1]

Mine are fine. They have a twenty year warranty and you can return them to Bushnell if you have a problem or use Amazon’s 30 day return policy if you don’t like them. When you return just click item not as described and the return shipping is free.

Not everyone will likely be as lucky, and will spend time mailing and waiting for a package. Some folks are not using Amazon to try and return (pump and dump), they are trying to buy a decent binocular. By the way that Bushnell warranty is not even worth the paper it is written on. Bushnell is a shell of it self now, (They used to provide some good glass up to the early 2000s - not anymore) I always tell folks they can do better, much better.

Andy W.

 

[[email protected]]

There are no consumer binoculars MADE IN AMERICA and there hasn’t been since surplus models from WWII were depleted. Even, prior to the war, when Bausch & Lomb was the big dog, much of their inventory came from Zeiss. Yes, Leupold makes optics (Beaverton, Oregon) ... riflescopes. Yes, Meopta has a plant on US soil (just northwest of Tampa, Florida) ... but they only (for now, at least) develop AR coatings.

I know others will disagree with me. That's okay, I've been fighting this battle for MANY years. Sometimes, it's good not to argue with folks, and just let them be wrong. :cat:

Celestron, Meade, Oberwerk, Vortex, Eagle, the late Alpen, and many others, ARE American companies. Now, American IMPORTING COMPANIES. And 3 names we all know, Bushnell, Jason, and TASCO are all imported to the same location in Overland Park, Kansas. David Bushnell sold his company in 1972. Even before, he was an IMPORTER. These days, Celestron does only one thing to one product (no, don’t ask me), the rest is off the shelf from China.

But as my non-Pecosite buddy has indicated, “If you have the money; they have the product!” The problem is, most of those who shop in China either don't HAVE the money or they can keep their bottom line up by not spending it.


Bill

"There are no consumer binoculars MADE IN AMERICA and there hasn’t been since surplus models from WWII were depleted."

Yes, there are! They are military grade but a consumer can buy them. https://fraseroptics.com/

"Fraser Optics is a U.S. manufacturer of hand-held gyro-stabilized optical products. These high-powered, world-class optics have been in use by US and foreign militaries for more than 40 years. All products are backed by proven performance in military and law enforcement mission-critical operations and have been tested under extreme conditions.Our state-of-the-art equipment is used worldwide to conduct long range surveillance on the ground, aboard ships, and from airborne platforms. It is used primarily to detect personnel and vehicle movement, as well as to aid in the identification of targets of interest at long ranges. Manufactured to MILSPEC standards, all of our products are proudly made in the USA at our ISO 9001:2015 standard facility in Trevose, Pennsylvania."

 

[CharleyBird]

On the basis you get what you pay for, they have to produce a decent view. For some strange reason I'd like a yellow pair; maybe just to bring them out and joke "try my latest toy binoculars"... and then see the reaction.

 

[[email protected]]

On the basis you get what you pay for, they have to produce a decent view. For some strange reason I'd like a yellow pair; maybe just to bring them out and joke "try my latest toy binoculars"... and then see the reaction.

Me too! Yellow would be cool! You would never lose them. How many people have a 3.7 pound yellow binocular?

 

[WJC]

"There are no consumer binoculars MADE IN AMERICA and there hasn’t been since surplus models from WWII were depleted."

Yes, there are! They are military grade but a consumer can buy them. https://fraseroptics.com/

"Fraser Optics is a U.S. manufacturer of hand-held gyro-stabilized optical products. These high-powered, world-class optics have been in use by US and foreign militaries for more than 40 years. All products are backed by proven performance in military and law enforcement mission-critical operations and have been tested under extreme conditions.Our state-of-the-art equipment is used worldwide to conduct long range surveillance on the ground, aboard ships, and from airborne platforms. It is used primarily to detect personnel and vehicle movement, as well as to aid in the identification of targets of interest at long ranges. Manufactured to MILSPEC standards, all of our products are proudly made in the USA at our ISO 9001:2015 standard facility in Trevose, Pennsylvania."

Darn it Denny, why must you always be so difficult? As I keep saying CONSUMER!

I have never said anything about MILITARY GRADE! Most bird watchers don't buy military binoculars. Please, if you're going to challenge me, at least get your data straight. Also, there are some US "military grade" binoculars that come straight from China or Japan. I know some of them. Do you? So, NO THERE'S NOT. :cat:

 

[Patudo]

Darn it Denny, why must you always be so difficult? As I keep saying CONSUMER!

I have never said anything about MILITARY GRADE! Most bird watchers don't buy military binoculars. Please, if you're going to challenge me, at least get your data straight. Also, there are some US "military grade" binoculars that come straight from China or Japan. I know some of them. Do you? So, NO THERE'S NOT. :cat:

Fraser-Volpe binoculars are used by recreational fishermen - I know this for a fact - and hunters feature heavily in the photos/posts in their Facebook page. Are these groups not CONSUMERS! then? :cat:

 

[WJC]

Fraser-Volpe binoculars are used by recreational fishermen - I know this for a fact - and hunters feature heavily in the photos/posts in their Facebook page. Are these groups not CONSUMERS! then? :cat:

Hi, Patudo,

Thank you for being kind. I only had time to go to 3 Internet sites concerning that company today, but I will be looking into it further.

I saw no line of consumer optics—especially for the hunter. But like I said I will be looking into this further.

This is what I know so far:

1) The second largest customer base I had at Captain’s for 21 years was commercial fisherman, and yet I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THE COMPANY. That’s neither good nor bad. But dealing with more commercial fishermen than any port north of San Diego, I find it completely peculiar. One would have thought I would have at least heard the name.

2) I also found it odd that their “Steady Eyes” image stabilized binoculars have almost everything in common with Nikon’s STABILE EYES and Fujinon’s TECHNO STABI to the position of the controls and the hand strap. I will admit that the images were rather small. But like I said, I will be looking deeper.

3) Celestron, Meade, Eagle, Vortex, Bausch & Lomb, Maven, etc. are ALL American companies, none of which make the binoculars they sell.

4) I once offered $50 to anyone who could PROVE to me that Leupold MADE binoculars—which they don’t and didn’t. After several days of people sending photos of women wiping off lenses for RIFLESCOPES. I still had my $50. It seems relaying information from my Leupold rep was not good enough. :cat:

“No amount of evidence will ever persuade an __________.” — Mark Twain (attributed)

Cheers,

Bill

 

[WJC]

Originally Posted by Patudo
Fraser-Volpe binoculars are used by recreational fishermen – “I know this for a fact - and hunters feature heavily in the photos/posts in their Facebook page. Are these groups not CONSUMERS! then?

Hi, Patudo, how many times have I said something bold like, “I know this for a fact,” only to have you try to discredit me on the point. I lovingly say the shoe is now on the other foot. Fortunately, I don’t believe everything I see on Facebook pages!

I am surely open to being convinced and HOPE you can do so. But you have not done so by your comments so far. I still have never heard of them and, although I have now visited 8 Internet sights concerning them, I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE: 7x50, 8x32, 8x40, 20x80, 15x70, 10x50, 6x15, etc., etc, etc. or any other binocular that would seem to be aimed at the average consumer—hunter or not. See attachment 1.

Attachment 2 shows 3 IS binoculars. The one from OpticsPlanet, Adorama, and Walmart are ALL 14x40. Does this not strike you as a bit odd? Is 14x40 the PERFECT combination? Or is it that coming up with original specs would cost much More?

Every site I have seen—including FACEBOOK—is dripping with IS models. Although they say their instruments are MADE IN AMERICA—and I would be super pleased if they were—I still find their “14x41,” so similar to the Fujinon or the Nikon neither of which are made in America. But theirs has a 1 MILLIMETER larger objective ... yeah right. I’ve seen this game played too many times.

I’m not trying to impugn them, but when I was 6 and my mother was beating the socks off me at gin rummy, something that had never happened before, she was kind enough to explain and teach. She was illiterate, but not stupid.

“Billy, at the end of every hand, I added a few extra points to my score. As you go through life, keep your eyes open. If you do, you will see that there is often much more in keeping score than in playing the game.”

I have done so. Perhaps that is why I have no retirement or pension but live is nice house in a great neighborhood (attachment 4), and even though not having a job in 8 years, I am out of debt while many others are drowning in it.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[John A Roberts]

As to whether Fraser-Volpe IS binoculars are ‘Made in America’ . . .

Fraser Optics description of their business on Linkedin, makes it clear that:
- they design and develop their products in-house
- the manufacturing of components is out-sourced, and
- assembly, QA and product testing takes place at their factory

That is, what one would expect in relation to a high-tech, complex, relatively low production item

See the details from: https://www.linkedin.com/company/fraser-optics-llc


John

 

[Patudo]

WJC - it seems to have escaped you that what I took issue with was not whether Fraser binoculars are American made (although I grant you that thanks to your lovable internet persona, I'd find it rather satisfying if that were indeed the case).

The point I am making is that this company's product is not restricted to military/government users - that the civilian consumer is perfectly able to buy them just so long as s/he has the funds to do so, and that the firm's own promotional material targets consumer users such as hunters. Although it may be that, in your own little world, recreational fishermen - which, I repeat, I know for a fact use these binoculars, and recommend further that speaking to knowledgeable people in San Diego might be a better way to educate yourself about them instead of bumbling around the internet - and hunters fall outside the category of "consumers"...

---------------

As for whether the Fraser products are made in the US or not, instead of attempting to muddy the waters by mentioning Celestron, Meade, Eagle, Vortex, Bausch & Lomb, Maven, etc. - none of which have anything to do with Fraser (unless you know something to the contrary?) or regaling us with delightful vignettes of learning gin rummy from your mother, your nice house in a great neighbourhood, or not having a job for eight years - why not use some of those hundreds of words to email the company directly, making sure to bring up all the points you've raised here? I'm sure they'll be glad to respond to someone of your manifest expertise. Don't forget to keep us informed of what they say...

 

[Maljunulo]

Lower priced optics are manufactured with a greater number of compromises (and more severe compromises) than so-called "Alphas".

They may involve materials, mechanical tolerances, choice of optical glass and other elements of design, coatings, and so on.

There is absolutely no way around this and to insist that lower-priced glass is "equivalent" or "as good as" or any other term in common use is just plain silly.

Celestron will never equal Zeiss, and Bushnell will never equal Swarovski, and to pretend otherwise is ingenuous.

Buy the best you can afford.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi, Patudo,

WJC - it seems to have escaped you that what I took issue with was not whether Fraser binoculars are American made

I think the written record shows that you seem steadfast and sure of your assessment.

The point I am making is that this company's product is not restricted to military/government users - that the civilian consumer is perfectly able to buy them just so long as s/he has the funds to do so, and that the firm's own promotional material targets consumer users such as hunters.

Tell me, Patudo; you live in a seaport city. Do you see any around the docks? Do you know of any hunters that do? YES or NO!

Although it may be that, in your own little world, recreational fishermen

Yep, it’s all from “my little world.”

- which, I repeat, I know for a fact use these binoculars, and recommend further that speaking to knowledgeable people in San Diego might be a better way to educate yourself about them instead of bumbling around the internet - and hunters fall outside the category of "consumers"...

A lot of newbies KNOW FOR FACT things that aren’t true.

“instead of attempting to muddy the waters by mentioning Celestron, Meade, Eagle, Vortex, Bausch & Lomb, Maven, etc. - none of which have anything to do with Fraser”

Is it just me, or do you have a problem with seeing validity in what others say as well? Muddy the waters? All those companies are KNOWN to MAKE BINOCULARS in the UNITED STATES. At least by those who are puffed up and THINK[B[ they KNOW considerably more than they do.

As I see your debauchery of a bit of wisdom, I would like you to live in your own know-it-all, self-righteous little world and leave me alone OR be bold enough to tell this forum that YOU know more about optics, the optics industry, and binoculars than that old Bill Cook.

As I see it:

“A wise many speaks when he has something to say. A fool speaks when he has to say something.” — Plato :t:

Bill

Bill. I would suck your big ego up and admit your wrong before you dig your self too deep of a hole! It seems you think that since you wrote a book on binoculars you are an authority on everything associated with binoculars which is definitely not the case. You have a very difficult time admitting you are wrong. You come across as an arrogant know-it-all and because you were a professional screw-turner for 50 years that somehow places you above us all in expertise. Fraser's are consumer binoculars, and they are made in the USA. When a binocular is sold at B&H, Adorama, Optics Planet and even Walmart like the Fraser's are they are CONSUMER binoculars. Your ludicrous argument will not change that fact.

 

[Patudo]

I think the written record shows that you seem steadfast and sure of your assessment.

...and yes, I am - sure that recreational (and commercial for that matter) fishermen and hunters are consumers - or, to adopt your manner of speech,

CONSUMERs!

Tell me, Patudo; you live in a seaport city. Do you see any around the docks? Do you know of any hunters that do? YES or NO!

It may be of interest to you that London is no longer a "seaport city" - port operations in the modern era take place much further downriver. You might also like to know that container docks in the modern era are out of bounds to the general public. But, those points aside, I will say that I've been on sportfishing docks many a time, and I know - for a fact - that you will hardly ever see binoculars of any sort being openly sported by skippers and crews on the dock. But if you assume they aren't being used on the water because you don't see them on the dock, you would be very - how shall I put this? - wrong.

Now, binoculars from Fraser-Volpe and their competitors are not used by the fishermen I myself fish with - partly because of their expense, and partly because the fishing style in the islands I fish does not require stabilized 14xs. But in other parts of the world, for other types of fishing, that kind of binocular gives you a very significant advantage. I've said it before, and will repeat it most emphatically again - speak to knowledgeable people in San Diego, ask them, with due humility, about binoculars and their use for sportfishing, and you'll learn a few things that you missed out on sitting behind the counter in the shop you used to work at in Seattle those 21 years.

Muddy the waters? All those companies are KNOWN to MAKE BINOCULARS in the UNITED STATES. At least by those who are puffed up and THINK[B[ they KNOW considerably more than they do.

Tell us again, instead of trying to wriggle off the hook: do any of these companies - Celestron, Meade, Eagle, Vortex, Bausch & Lomb, Maven, etc. - have anything to do with Fraser?

...I would like you to live in your own know-it-all, self-righteous little world and leave me alone OR be bold enough to tell this forum that YOU know more about optics, the optics industry, and binoculars than that old Bill Cook.

The fact that your stock reply to anyone who dares to question your "wisdom" is to ask how many binoculars they've collimated, or something along similar lines, speaks volumes. I'm more than willing to concede you've fixed more binoculars and sold more binoculars than I have. But because you're a more experienced screw-turner (your own words) than anyone else in this thread, in this forum or on this planet, doesn't mean you're infallible in all things - and when the persona you adopt on a public forum is as, shall we say, as uniquely endearing as yours, don't be surprised if folks pick up on your slip-ups with a greater than usual degree of Schadenfreude.

As I see it:

“A wise man speaks when he has something to say. A fool speaks when he has to say something.” — Plato :t:

Bill

... Quite. :cat:

 

[WJC]

Bill. I would suck your big ego up and admit your wrong before you dig your self too deep of a hole!:-O Fraser's are consumer binoculars, and they are made in the USA. When a binocular is sold at B&H, Adorama, Optics Planet and even Walmart like the Fraser's are they are CONSUMER binoculars.

201115

Hi, Denny,

Your thinking is sometimes as shallow as Patudo’s. When most birdwatchers think of “consumer” optics they don’t think of heavy IS instruments; they think of traditional roof prism or Porro prism binoculars.

Reading Patudo’s first post—another unwarranted attack—one could get the idea that they are the hunter’s best friend and that recreational fishermen have them on many of their boats. That IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE. I can’t speak for those with money liking boy’s toys and need to be on the cutting edge of cutting edges, but while making fun of my “little world,” the fact that I dealt with thousands of fisherman—commercial or casual—and I had never heard of the company didn’t even strike a chord with him. If a person was digging for the truth it might have done so. But, apparently, he made up his mind a long time ago that his knowledge of binoculars and the optics industry was superior to mine and that he had an obligation to protect the forum from my comments. But, as pointed out in Bino Thoughts #5, there are different levels of understanding. Some people who want to understand dig a little deeper. Those who already know everything ... won’t.

From the Fraser website, John pulled:

- the manufacturing of components is out-sourced, and the next line says they are assembled in their plant. As I have said multiple times, I am ecstatic about any optical concerns being returned to our shores. However, assembly IS NOT manufacturing and if you change a screw-hole pattern you can advertise that you did the final engineering on the product. I won’t let my “big ego” get sucked into that crap. I’ve seen it played out for decades and just won’t.

Example: When a person KNOWS his binocular is waterproof. Does he KNOW that, OR just what he has read.

The Japanese Industrial Standards for waterproofing are as follows:

— JIS Class 0: The device is not protected
— JIS Class 1: Device has protection against vertically falling water drops
— JIS Class 2: Protection against vertically falling water drops when enclosure is tilted up to 15%
— JIS Class 3: Protected against spraying water — Water sprayed at any angle up to 60º on either side of the vertical shall have no harmful effects
— JIS Class 4: Fully protected against splashing water
— JIS Class 5: Protected against water jets — Water projected in jets from any direction against the enclosure shall have no harmful effects
— JIS Class 6: Watertight — Having no entry of water into inside by receiving direct jet of water from any direction
— JIS Class 7: The device remains dry after temporary immersion in water
— JIS Class 8: The device remains dry during continuous immersion in water

Two things should be of concern to the observer. First, these standards are recognized
for all sorts of products, not just optics. Secondly, while the waterproofing standards
for better binoculars are Class 6 to 8, some low-quality instruments may be touted as
“waterproof” if having only a JIS waterproof rating of Class 1. It’s LEGAL but misleading. Will shallow thinking do it for you?

And Denny, please don’t find me as merciless as I find Patudo, but you have said that you can—in the same instant—see axially and peripherally, saying, “I know what I see.” No, Denny, you THINK you know what you see, and are happy with that. Great! However, that is denying the science, medicine, and ophthalmology behind the issue. Page 50 in my first bino book illustrates beyond a doubt that unless your bino has a 100% effective field flattener, you’re wrong and victim to that shallow thinking, ignoring the millisecond movements of the rectus and ciliary muscles.

There are so many things I say that shallow thinking can PROVE I’m wrong about, that UNDERSTANDING and common sense would bear out.

Moments ago, I deleted my response to Patudo’s last diatribe. Coming to my senses, I realized he was never going to GET IT and it would be foolish and self-serving to keep placating his neurosis. Having not deleted it, I would have been stooping to his level of understanding—if not rudeness—and I didn’t want to do that ... again.

— I have offered to explain any of my comments off the forum.
— I have offered my hand in fellowship more than once.
— I have asked to be his friend.

But when a person already knows everything, he can be judicious about who he allows into his circle.

And while I was writing this to you, he felt the need to show his incessant superiority to 5 things I said in one post. I read none of them. I am tired of wasting my time. But he has accomplished one thing, in 16 years of visiting binocular forums—being challenged sometimes—he is the first person I have ever put on IGNORE! Which will take place momentarily. Being challenged is good and can be helpful; unmitigated attacks are not good or helpful. I suspect he will backstab me in the future. But at least he will be spitting into the wind. :t: :cat:

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Patudo]

201115

... When most birdwatchers think of “consumer” optics they don’t think of heavy IS instruments; they think of traditional roof prism or Porro prism binoculars.

... I can’t speak for those with money liking boy’s toys and need to be on the cutting edge of cutting edges, but ...

Another risible attempt to (yet again) change the goalposts - you missed your calling WJC, you should have gone into politics...

- birders are not the only consumers out there, there are other consumer segments that use heavy IS instruments;

- expense alone does not mean a consumer item is not a consumer item;

- the very term "boy's toys" can hardly be disassociated with items intended for the consumer market, and could with equal force be applied to the likes of the "Baywatch Telescope", which you had your own hand in;

- if you're not familiar with that sector of the optics industry in which Fraser-Volpe and its competitors operate, it might be a good idea to educate yourself about it before, as you put it with your trademark eloquence, "spitting into the wind"...

-------------------------

Last, but not least: Fraser's LinkedIn page also states, immediately after the sentences you quoted, that "Fraser Optics contracts with several best-in-class US suppliers to manufacture these components".

So there we are - either they are not telling the truth, in which case they owe their consumers an apology; or their product is, in fact, US-made, in which case... :cat:

 

[[email protected]]

"The fact that your stock reply to anyone who dares to question your "wisdom" is to ask how many binoculars they've collimated, or something along similar lines, speaks volumes. I'm more than willing to concede you've fixed more binoculars and sold more binoculars than I have. But because you're a more experienced screw-turner (your own words) than anyone else in this thread, in this forum or on this planet, doesn't mean you're infallible in all things - and when the persona you adopt on a public forum is as, shall we say, as uniquely endearing as yours, don't be surprised if folks pick up on your slip-ups with a greater than usual degree of Schadenfreude."

Well said! That describes Billy perfectly!

 

[WJC]

"The fact that your stock reply to anyone who dares to question your "wisdom" is to ask how many binoculars they've collimated, or something along similar lines, speaks volumes. I'm more than willing to concede you've fixed more binoculars and sold more binoculars than I have. But because you're a more experienced screw-turner (your own words) than anyone else in this thread, in this forum or on this planet, doesn't mean you're infallible in all things - and when the persona you adopt on a public forum is as, shall we say, as uniquely endearing as yours, don't be surprised if folks pick up on your slip-ups with a greater than usual degree of Schadenfreude."

Well said! That describes Billy perfectly!

The rattles on the end of a snake have NEVER bitten anyone. But they are inextricably attached to the part that will. I know what I’m doing. Most see it for what it is; others do not. But let me ask you, are you not just reacting to my pointing out the error in your thinking concerning WHAT YOU KNOW about the edge-sharpness of a bino’s field. I offend so many who are offended by the truth. Always have; always will.

When many of my friends told me what I would get into trying to help on the bino forums. I told them that I would give it 20 years. Well, I’ve given it 16, which is 16 more than those who really know what’s going on in optics were willing to do. If memory serves, you have had your tail yanked by a lot more than me.

I can’t afford to care what you think. But I, at least, want to tell you that my puffery has a good, wholesome, reason to exist (whether you understand it or not) and many—several on this forum—who have taken the time to communicate, understand.

I am not going to apologize for having one major career my whole life and what that has given me to share.
I am not going to apologize for 50 years on the bench and what that has given me to share.
I am not going to apologize for working with 12,000 plus binocular repairs and what that has given me to share.
I am not going to apologize for knowing what I know about the industry that others don’t and what that has given me to share.

And I am not going to apologize to the snowflakes who don’t know or care about my motivations. What people think of me is irrelevant. I just try to raise the bar of understanding for those who care and withstand what I need to in order to do so. :cat:

“Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.” — Aristotle

Bill

 

[eitanaltman]

Someone keeps bringing up knowledgeable people in San Diego. Well I’m in San Diego and I consider myself to be quite knowledgeable about many things! But I know nothing about these binocular which are being discussed which have nothing to do with the original question in this thread, so I assume you must be talking about not me, but the folks at Baker Marine?

Anyway, my condolences to the OP. But I happen to think, regardless of where they are made, the Vortex Diamondback HD 8x32 are absolutely delightful for $200 and punch WAY above their weight optically. And they are super compact and weigh only 450g naked. I can’t imagine a casual user not being blown away by them if they received them as a gift.

 

[WJC]

Someone keeps bringing up knowledgeable people in San Diego. Well I’m in San Diego and I consider myself to be quite knowledgeable about many things! But I know nothing about these binocular which are being discussed which have nothing to do with the original question in this thread, so I assume you must be talking about not me, but the folks at Baker Marine?

Anyway, my condolences to the OP. But I happen to think, regardless of where they are made, the Vortex Diamondback HD 8x32 are absolutely delightful for $200 and punch WAY above their weight optically. And they are super compact and weigh only 450g naked. I can’t imagine a casual user not being blown away by them if they received them as a gift.

Eitan, San Diego is the home port for the tuna fleet. Please do us a favor. The next time you are in Baker, ask Brian if he's ever heard of that company. :cat:

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Maljunulo]

This thread has certainly gone roaring off in a direction other than the one OP intended.