Binocular ramblings (1 Viewer)

[Tero]

My roofers family now
8x28 Bushnell Excursion
8x32 Bushnell Legend
8x32 Eagle Optics ranger
10x42 Monarch
10x43 Pentax DCF

I was in search of maybe the ideal reverse porro, but the 8x28 with its over 400ft fov has it beat. At 8x, these have enough resolution, compared to all small bins I have seen.

 

[Tero]

I am starting to think a little like Frank. I have an 8x28 Excursion, had a 10x28 fora few days..it was poor. Now I see they have a 10x36. I was not thrilled with the 8x36 Monarch, compared to 8x42 or 10x42. Now I am extremely curious about the 10x36 Excursion. Did Bushnell get that straight?

If I buy one, I will probably play with it for a week and then exchange it for something else. It sells for about 170, and interesting part also. I already know you can make a half way decent pair for $250. For less, I have little expectations.

Typical offerings in that price range
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4819

I would have been happy with those as a beginning birder, but...

 

[FrankD]

Tero,

If you play with it for a week and then sell it then you really will be starting to think like me.

I know everyone has their own tastes but I really have a hard time warming up to any 10x smaller than 42 mm. Granted I haven't tried any of the high end stuff in this configuration but it just seem that the smaller exit pupil coupled with the smaller size/weight would make the binocular less comfortable to use. I could easily be proven wrong ofcourse.

 

[Tero]

This is true, I have not held a 10x smaller than 40mm I liked. 9x maybe.

The thing with the returns is, after 4 exchanges I end up buying something just out of guilt for all the fun I had for a month.

 

[FrankD]

The thing with the returns is, after 4 exchanges I end up buying something just out of guilt for all the fun I had for a month.
__________________

I hear ya. After my third or fourth return at Cabelas they started lookin' at me funny. It wasn't even hunting season so it wasn't like I was using them and then returning them like some folks do.

So here is one you will just love (I am ready to kick myself). I just received a "gift card" from Cabelas. Spend over $500 and you get a $150 gift card to use on your next purchase. I just bought the Swaro SLCs four days ago. Do you think they will still give me the $150?

 

[Tero]

Took out the 10x42 Monarchs for a test, where I usually use 8x40 porros. No year birds, other than Common Nighthawk, and I IDd it with plain eyes. I did get it in the binoculars too.

Warblers were located, about 3 species. I was surprised that first spring American Redstarts are not orange, but they do sing already.

Tracked down a Swainson's Thrush in the woods. Here my 10x Sporters would be struggling. I think 8x Sporters would be OK in the woods. The 10x Monarchs did quite well ona a cloudy day in the shade. Thrush had clear eye ring.

I tried to find the CA, but only saw it looking at dark tree trunks against a relatively bright sky. Luckily I never look for tree trunks with these. Birds were fine, no CA. A few birds were a dark silhouette, but they would have been dark with any bins.

Just looking at the early history of me birding here. My recent post had a summary:

I started birding with a dreadful 12x25 pair of pocket binocular. They were awful, but I developed a skill to point them just right, as they had a very narrow field of view, some 200-250ft in our units.

Later on I got a 10x36. ( I turned 50, a present to myself) It just opened up a world for me, to see so much at one time. The magnification was less, but I actually saw more, due to the quality.

Then I moved to a Monarch 10x42, another quantum leap. It was brighter, sharper.

Finally, I had a hard time finding warblers, so I moved to 8x32!

At this rate I will end up at 6.5x.

 

[Pinewood]

Tero,



I know everyone has their own tastes but I really have a hard time warming up to any 10x smaller than 42 mm. Granted I haven't tried any of the high end stuff in this configuration but it just seem that the smaller exit pupil coupled with the smaller size/weight would make the binocular less comfortable to use. I could easily be proven wrong ofcourse.

Hello Frank,

I had a hard time holding a 10x40 and reverted to less powerful binoculars. I do use a 10x32, when I need a little more reach than I get with a 7x42, so I carry both. Today, the ten was useful for the details of a Baltimore Oriole high in a tree. Ten days ago, it was good for identifying a Louisiana waterthrush.

No doubt a 10x42 has advantages, especially at dusk, but I found the 10x40 unwieldy and I am not going to carry around a 10x40 and a 7x42. Your milage may differ!

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

 

[Tero]

I had a little of the same problem with the 10x40 Zeiss, never with the Pentax or Monarch. Mostly a weight isssue. Plus I did not need all that weight on the neck either. So you may be right, 10x32 and 10x36 may be steady enough.

 

[Pinewood]

I had a little of the same problem with the 10x40 Zeiss,

Hello Tero,

Just so, even though the Zeiss 10x40 was recommended as easy to hold. There may be a lot of personal ergonomics to explain our issues with a rather popular bird watching glass.
I will still choose a good quality 8x32 as an all rounder binocular but every binocular is a compromise and there is no perfect binocular, and certainly not one perfect for all occasions and uses.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:

 

[Kevin Purcell]

I do use a 10x32, when I need a little more reach than I get with a 7x42, so I carry both. Today, the ten was useful for the details of a Baltimore Oriole high in a tree. Ten days ago, it was good for identifying a Louisiana waterthrush.

Of course this leads on to the Leupold Switchview (and similar Leica Duovid?) switchable bins. The 7 or 12 by 32 looks interesting. The price is a lot less interesting at $899.

Anyone tried them?

Anyone else carry a high magnification and a low magnification bins?

How do you carry them? Both around the neck? One around the neck and the other bandolier style? Neck and harness?

Curiously,
Kevin

 

[ceasar]

The only review of them that I have seen is in thread 11 here:http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=99815

Bob

 

[Tero]

Kevin, Joanie, expert at
http://www.opticsplanet.com/msgboard/forum-1.html
was not recommending the Leupold Switchview.

I carry a 10x42 areound the neck and maybe a 8x28 in the hand. It goes in the shoulder bag when I use the 10x42. Or the coat pocket.

The alternative, 8x42 around the neck and some 10x compact in hand does not work as well.

For short walks, a tripod mounted scope on shoulder, 8x32 around neck.

 

[Steve C]

I have talked to this Joannie at Optics Planet and have gotten what I consider backwards sort of advice. On the other hand I have talked to three Eagle Optics people who say the resolution of the 7-12x Switch Power is very good. Nearly as good as the Leupold Gold ring and better than either the Mojave, Katmi or Pinnacles. Their combined opinion was the 7x was outstanding and the 12x, while not as good as the 7 was "better than expected". Whatever that means.

So, who knows. Leupold seems to have a love/hate relationship with not many in the middle. I've had Leupold products for years with nary a problem and complete satisfaction. They, along with Vortex can teach most companies about the definition of "customer service". I understand Swarovski is very good as well, but I will never know.

I am mostly in the market for another binocular and will top spending out in the $850 or so range. I am looking at the Leupold Gold Ring 8x42, the Vortex Razor 8x42, Meopta Meostar in 7 or 8x 42 and I very likely will try a 7-12x Switch Power just to see for myself.

 

[Pinewood]

Of course this leads on to the Leupold Switchview (and similar Leica Duovid?) switchable bins. The 7 or 12 by 32 looks interesting. The price is a lot less interesting at $899.

Anyone tried them?

Anyone else carry a high magnification and a low magnification bins?

How do you carry them? Both around the neck? One around the neck and the other bandolier style? Neck and harness?

Curiously,
Kevin

Hello Kevin,

I use a Duluth Pack canvas haversack which can hold the 7x42 Dialyt and a 10x32 FL binocular, as well as a Peterson's guide, although the guide is usually left at home. Generally, I have the 7x42 around my neck and the other binocular is in the bag until I need it. I regard the ten power as a last resort because it is work to keep it steady and because of its narrower field of view. I do not find it dim, even in shade.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

 

[Tero]

To be truthful, I am surprised none of the regulars went for it yet
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4848

Problems are
1. It is not Big 3, therefore the price is a lot even for people who would pay for a Big 3 product.
2. Price, again. I am enough of a fanatic I might save up $500 for a 7/12x, half way expecting to send it back. But I do not have 900 to spend.

 

[Steve C]

Problems are
1. It is not Big 3, therefore the price is a lot even for people who would pay for a Big 3 product.
2. Price, again. I am enough of a fanatic I might save up $500 for a 7/12x, half way expecting to send it back. But I do not have 900 to spend.

Tero,

I'm in complete agreement with you here. It took me a long time to get to the point whare I'm finally willing to go to the $8-900 level. Even then I am halfway expecting to send them back. The 7-12X Switch Power will have to whack my Swift 7x36, which I'm not at all sure it can do. The others mentioned will have to beat the Swift and my Vipers. This is with a noticeable in-the-field-difference, not with boosted resolution, and/or finely measured resolution tests from charts. While I realize the resolution tests and boosted magnification and other optics tests are necessary to ultimately segregate differences among binoculars which I have no doubt are real, if I can't see the difference in the way I use glass in the field, I really do not care. I've long thought that $500 should buy all the binocular that 95% or more of all people can use. I am mostly curious as to how my long held opinion will hold up with 2x more expensive glass. The high end Nikon and Euros are safe, because I do not think the improvement they offer me is worth what it would cost me. I've spent enough time comparing those to be pretty firm in that opinion. The $750-1,000 class is not something I've looked at much except for the Leupold Gold Rings, and some time with the Vortex Razor, which I do like. So I will see.

I'm with you in that I have only so much money and will spend it cautiously,

 

[ceasar]

Look at it this way. The Leupold 7/12 x 32 Switch Power is basically the 7 x 30/32 binocular that so many people have pined for since the demise of the Swaro 7 x 30, which did not have phase coatings. It appears to be, in it's 7x conformation, optically, at least as good as Leupold's Gold Ring roofs, and is lighter to boot. It's 7x FOV is about the same as the Swift Eaglet 7 x 36. Now, consider this! Leupold has also added a 12x flip switch to it, basically as a convenience factor to the purchaser, who is either a birder or a hunter. AND, you can buy one for about $1400.00 less than the Leica Switch Power!

Why so many doubts about this binocular? Very few birders or hunters will use the 12x as their primary power choice. It's there if, and when, you need it. Brace the binocular with your elbows, if you need to, on the nearest available support. For hunters, that is likely the ground, or knees. For birder's the best thing would likely be a combo walking/finn stick.

When you think about it, it's really a remarkable binocular being sold at a remarkably reasonable price!

Cordially,
Bob

 

[Kevin Purcell]

The only review of them that I have seen is in thread 11 here:http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=99815

Bob

Thanks for the link, Bob.

From that thread:

I first tried zoom binoculars about 40 years ago. (I forget the brand). I thought they were actually fairly good, and really thought zoom was a neat and potentially useful feature. I have been disappointed that more progress has not been made along these lines, and am hoping that Leupold will succeed in bringing this into the mainstream. These are not technically zoom binoculars of course, but the effect is almost the same.

Precisely!

I think the typical initial response is the birder reflex that "zoom bins are bad". Well, they are. But these aren't zoom bins, AFAICT. Zoom bins use a zoom lens in the eyepiece so all the zoom lens compromises come along with it including size, weight, poor(er) AFOV and poor eye relief.

I suspect Leupold are inserting a Barlow Lens (or similar divergent) optical assembly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_lens

to increase the effective focal length of the objective keeping the same (non-zoom) eyepiece. Another route is the switch replaces a + (convergent) lens assembly with a - (divergent) lens assembly but keeping the focal point the same. I suspect the former would be "cleaner" at low magnification (which would be most used) and so might be preferred. Though I'm pretty sure it's not quite that simple given both the objective and the eyepiece are in fixed positions

Or perhaps they're adding a teleconverter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleconverter

Or perhaps they are modifying the eyepiece slightly - the specs do say the eye relief changes. Not by a lot but by 3mm.

This gets rid of all the regular zoom eyepiece issues and the problem comes down to how do you do this reliably without adding too much weight or compromising other features (CA, acuity, sharpness, contrast, stray light, ... it is at least two probably more glass-air transitions though good multi-layer coatings make this possible today).

The product seems to match how users actually use the product too. Most of the time at low mag but on those occasions that need it (is that a eyering?) they can use the higher magnification.

I suspect they might sell more (or even have people experiment with them) if they tried this in a lower price point glass (say $500, as many people seem to have that as an upper bound) then migrate it up. Of course there would be some compromises (e.g. perhaps I would expect something like a Katmai or Mohave class bin).

Still it's nice to see them innovate at any price point.

One other issue I guess is that bin buyers are even less technical than other hobbies I'm involved in (e.g. amateur radio, astronomy) where the internal details of the designs of products are discussed in technical detail, admittedly by a small minority. With bins the internal designs (and design issues) are never revealed so people don't talk about the design and it's compromises directly. The reviewing is either by precise measurement (by a few) or by "black box" testing (looking through it and describing the outcome of various ad hoc tests, or, in the worst case, by just listing specs.

This state of affairs reminds me of amateur radio in the 1960s and 1970s where fashions and biases ruled the roost and important parameters (strong signal behavior) were ignored for pointless increases in sensitivity. When hams started looking for better strong signal behavior the manufacturers started to respond and build better radios.

OK, enough rambling ... need to write the rest of that review.

 

[Tero]

If I were totally commited to 7x, I think I would go for a 7x42. But even there, I am not finding any that weigh less than 30oz.

I think Leupold should add more 7x models. A Golden Ring 7x32 or 7x42 would sell well. 6x I am not interested in.

As it is, I will settle for the 8x32s, the best compromise out there.

 

[Steve C]

ceasar

I don't doubt that I'll like the switch power binocular. I really am most interested in whether it will top the Swift at 7x (the Swift is very good and I have no problem with the fov). I intend to use it 80-90% of the time at 7x with the occasional look at 12x. The comparison will be switch power at 7x against 7-8x of the opthers I want to look at. SO it depends how the 12x stacks up and how the whole Switch power optics system is against the other fixed magnification glass. And how the fixed optics I have (Swift and Vipers) stack up against the next step up. Which is why I'm halfway expecting to return all them. I will have to see for myself if whatever improvement exists is worth it to me.