Binocular ramblings (1 Viewer)

[lucznik]

Unless your eye's entrance pupil is 5.25mm (i.e very very unlikely for birding in daylight ... even well into dusk the average pupil is 4mm). The extra light never makes it into your eye so you pupil effectively stops down the bin's objective.

...An oversized exit pupil for a birder adds to viewing comfort not brightness.

...For birders transmission through the bin (i.e. good AR and mirror coatings or even TIR porro prisms) matters more than exit pupil size to brightness.

This is all well and true, except that it largely presumes that the birding will be done only during the main portion of the day when it is bright and that the weather will always be good.

Some very good birding can be done in early morning and late evening. As an extreme example, owling generally must be done after (or at least very near) dark. Also, find yourself under a heavy overhead canopy, or heavily overcast skies (or worse yet, both) and that extra exit pupil can indeed result in greater levels of visible brightness - even at mid-day.

Probably not the biggest concern for the majority of birders but, that doesn't mean it doesn't play a factor for many.

 

[BirderSean]

Unless the Stokes has significantly better coatings, mirror surfaces, etc. these two binoculars, with their almost identical exit pupils (4.0mm for the Browning and 4.2mm for the Stokes) will be very similar - practically identical - in brightness.

To see significant changes in brightness you would have to have significant changes in exit pupil. For example, an 8x42 (e.p of 5.25mm) would be quite a lot brighter than the 8x32. So too, a 10x50 (e.p of 5.0mm), etc.

I understand this, and yet when I was comparing different models of
10x42 bins in the store some seemed brighter than others. Given
the same exit pupil amongst 10x42 bins, there has to be some other
good reason for the difference.

In my backyard, I compared the two side-by-side after purchasing the 10x42
and yes it is brighter. No idea why, but I like it.

 

[lucznik]

...when I was comparing different models of
10x42 bins in the store some seemed brighter than others. Given
the same exit pupil amongst 10x42 bins, there has to be some other
good reason for the difference.

Most likely it is differences in the lens coatings (their type, quality, quantity, etc.) as well as the materials used (aluminum, silver, dielectric coatings, or whatever) to form the mirrored surfaces required in the (schmidt-pechan) roof prism design

In my backyard, I compared the two side-by-side after purchasing the 10x42
and yes it is brighter. No idea why, but I like it.

That's good. I'm not disputing what you see. Probably better coatings on the Stokes.

 

[BirderSean]

cool, I'm not trying to argue over this whatsoever.

I do not know a lot about optics. I would concede that
perhaps maybe what I'm noticing is better contrast, color rendition,
sharper optics, (all of the above?) etc. etc. which makes the
view seem brighter.

 

[FrankD]

I think you found an excellent combination of configurations and quality. The Brownings have always been regarded as a bit of sleeper. Excellent optical quality for the price even before they were discounted. The Stokes are a steal now too when you consider what they sold for before.

 

[Tero]

So now I have the ProMaster ED, 10x42. They are not going back. More later.

I now want to introduce the concept many of us operate on: BINO-BUCKS. These are dollars or euros or pounds spent on any optics. You can sell the thing, but the new cash you get back is BINO-BUCKS. It can only be used on other optics from now on. Even if your baby is starving, you will have to go steal baby food. Bino-bucks are not to be spent on any unselfish needs.

If you are traveling and get held up, you are allowed to exchange the binos for your own life, but that is the only exception. It cannot be used to pay ransom for any other traveling companions.

 

[Steve C]

So now I have the ProMaster ED, 10x42. They are not going back. More later.

The Promasters are good binoculars. I can't say I'm surprised at all by this. Enjoy and report. || Did you get these with Bino Bucks (great concept by the way) or did you have to come with some difference?

 

[Tero]

I had 250+120 in bino bucks, they cost 460.

 

[FrankD]

Ahh, so we now have an addendum to the bino-bucks law. It is ok to spend some non-bino-bucks money in addition to your bino-bucks if it means an upgrade to a new piece of equipment.

..and as for "more later"....come on...fess up. We want to hear the comments.

 

[Tero]

Well, we do not have the head to head with the Pentax ED. I only have the Pentax 10x42 SP. Which is a decent binocular, and I think I slightly prefer it to Vortex Viper in 8x or 10x, thought the 8x Viper was nice.

So, it is not surprising the ProMaster is sharper than the Pentax SP and can pretty much beat it in every aspect. Stray light may be a tossup. The ProMaster is a bit longer, but I can't see that it is a problem and it does not even feel heavier. I do not have a problem with up 30 oz in hand, it is only around the neck 3 hours that you notice the weight.

So now I have these two 10x, and no plans to get more 10x. If a super 10x porro comes to my hand in a store, maybe then. But I am not looking.

For 8x, I am not looking either. I can get by with what I have.

So only the 9x36 to be launched remains a target.

Frank: You should know, mostly Bino-Bucks only shrink. With a good used pair, the shrinkage is the least, until you need repairs, unless it is a Vortex or Zeiss.

 

[FrankD]

So now I have these two 10x, and no plans to get more 10x. If a super 10x porro comes to my hand in a store, maybe then. But I am not looking.

...you headin' up to Eagle Optics any time soon? The Leupold Cascade porro in 10x42 is selling for around $219. I think that may qualify....

Thank you for the further comments on the Promaster. They are something, aren't they?

..and as for the bino-bucks...you are right ofcourse...unless, as I mentioned in another thread, you find a good deal or two here and there. Then they may actually stay the same for a time.

 

[Tero]

I think I will need to settle down with these two 10x roofers. The Pentax will still see some use, and it really is not much worse in optics. In 30 degree weather I will take the Promaster. In 20 degree weather I will go with the Pentax SP 10x43, less trouble with stiff focus knob. The Pentax is not really fantastic in any way, but a relatively flat field and pretty good ergonomics, there is nothing I hate about the Pentax. Unlike the Zeiss Conquest I had.

Meanwhile, how not to test binoculars, my post elesewhere:

Sign reading is pretty limited testing. I go to one camera store once in a while. I look out the window. Some distant trees are seen but mostly cars. I look at the license plates. All binoculars work whre nod dof is needed. I got a pair of 8x32 from the trunk of my car. The license plates looked the same as with every pair in the store. I did not need any binoculars tested that way. I could have had them copy my drivers license and go for a drive with a test pair, but gave up.

 

[Tero]

I had to spend 300 dollars on new optics. Got new bifocals. Not set for binoculars yet. I need lineless bifocals that also let me see the computer screen. Only, my old pair, only slightly different, was better on the computer. You can't win.

 

[FrankD]

...and here I thought this ol' thread had died. Glad to see you revived it. I sort of look at it as your "blog" for optics.....

 

[Tero]

It was a kind of blog. A couple of years ago people were reluctant to start threads that did not relate to one of the brands. Then they noticed it could be general and there were posts "down under", but not as far as Austaralia.

 

[falcondude]

...and here I thought this ol' thread had died. Glad to see you revived it. I sort of look at it as your "blog" for optics.....

How about calling it binocular monologue. We all had moments of reflection with optics at certain point of time. Tero is able to record it down and keeps doing it for so long. :t:

 

[Tero]

Checked out the 9x28 Pentax. Very nice lightweight compact model. Lighter than my Excursion 8x28. Resolution and brightness was similar.

Both beat the 8.5x21 Papillo easily, brighter and sharper.

 

[ceasar]

Checked out the 9x28 Pentax. Very nice lightweight compact model. ..................................

Exactly!!:t: Single hinge too!

Bob

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Checked out the 9x28 Pentax. Very nice lightweight compact model. Lighter than my Excursion 8x28. Resolution and brightness was similar.

Which is a bit of a bummer as the Pentax costs two and half times the Bushnell ...

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/pentax/pentax-dcf-lv-9x28-roof-prism-binocular

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/bushnell/bushnell-excursion-8x28-binocular

The Pentax is 3oz lighter with better ER but a much worse (5.6 degree) FOV.

 

[Tero]

Just after a quick look, I would have to give it to the Pentax based on solid feel despite light weight , and maybe more reliable eye cups. If you do not use the eye cups, it is a tossup. And some people do not like 9x, but can't imagine 8x is much better than 9x to hold. 10x is different.