Birder's Lifelist - should heard birds be counted? (1 Viewer)

[Xenospiza]

(1) do you count only SEEN birds for your lifelists or do you include HEARD species as well? Is there some internationally established "code of ethics" for this matter?
(2) does the number of photographed species play any role in your lifelists, or do you only count seen birds? Or seen and photographed separately?
(3) and, lastly, do you guys have some centralized birder's list/database in your home countries/regions? If yes, could you comment briefly on how that is organized?

(1) Seen for my lifelist, but I note heard-only as well so I can give a full list. For my Dutch list, heard-only counts as well (indeed to prevent disturbance) - I have four heard-only birds on my Dutch list, one of which is not on my life list...
(2) No.
(3) The Dutch ranking is here: https://www.dutchbirdalerts.nl/ranking, although not everyone takes part. A few more may be extracted from https://waarneming.nl. The Belgian list is here: https://www.belgianbirdalerts.be/ranking

 

[Nutcracker]

He walked in holding a Kookabura in his hands in front of him and sorry it was in to a doctors surgery.

The receptionist said, 'sorry, we don't treat animals, there's a vets practice down the road', at which point, he removed his hands to show that he was impaled through the midriff by the bird. The story is that he was travelling at speed, on a motorbike when the bird hit and impaled him.......

I always assumed it to be a myth?

:eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!:


Sounds a bit mythical from the way it's told - classic urban legend story structure.

 

[Farnboro John]

He walked in holding a Kookabura in his hands in front of him and sorry it was in to a doctors surgery.

The receptionist said, 'sorry, we don't treat animals, there's a vets practice down the road', at which point, he removed his hands to show that he was impaled through the midriff by the bird. The story is that he was travelling at speed, on a motorbike when the bird hit and impaled him.......

I always assumed it to be a myth?

Probably in the same category as the biker allegedly killed by a cockchafer that hit him in the eye when the biker was speeding and wearing an open-face helmet.

John

 

[dantheman]

Probably in the same category as the biker allegedly killed by a cockchafer that hit him in the eye when the biker was speeding and wearing an open-face helmet.

John

Hmmm ... that sounds plausible if it caused him to crash though? I've been stung on the throat by a wasp/bee whilst cycling - insects are not fun at speed!

 

[Andy Adcock]

Probably in the same category as the biker allegedly killed by a cockchafer that hit him in the eye when the biker was speeding and wearing an open-face helmet.

John

As an ex motorbike rider, I can tell you that an insect hitting you in the face at speed, is no fun. I never wore an open helmet but I have on occasion had a bee, hit my visor whilst I was doing about 70mph. I sounded like a rock hitting me and had I not had a visor on, I can honestly see the potential for serious harm.

 

[dantheman]

This is a good read - https://fatbirder.com/apocryphal-birding-stories-and-urban-myths/

(Halfway down for unfortunately trodden on rails and snipe)

So what do people make of the stories in the above link then? To me most of them read true and sound entirely plausible as the kind of events that can happen in birding ...

 

[Farnboro John]

Hmmm ... that sounds plausible if it caused him to crash though? I've been stung on the throat by a wasp/bee whilst cycling - insects are not fun at speed!

I agree with you in general but the story was that it crashed straight through the eye into the skull and killed him directly. Your scenario sounds frighteningly likely. :eek!:

John

 

[dantheman]

I agree with you in general but the story was that it crashed straight through the eye into the skull and killed him directly. Your scenario sounds frighteningly likely. :eek!:

John

Mmmm, yes. Mind you I wouldn't want to get hit in the face with a lump like that at 70mph - I imagine freak accidents could occur with eventual fatal hemorrhaging etc (Edit: Any injury trauma specialists on here?)

Recall there were some interesting stories around WWII when minimal/no headlights were allowed in UK cars at night?

Are we diverging from the OP?

 

[MJB]

As an ex motorbike rider, I can tell you that insects, hitting you in the face at speed, is no fun. I never wore an open helmet but I have on occasion had a bee, hit my visor whilst I was doing about 70mph. I sounded like a rock hitting me and had I not had a visor on, I can honestly see the potential for serious harm.

In Austria, just north of the Danube and close to Slovakia, I saw the staright courses of a motorcyclist (who wasn't hanging about) and a pheasant aiming to cross his path at about 90 degrees, intersect at helmet level. The exploded bird was instantly surrounded by an expanding, three-dimensional halo of feathers that all too soon drifted down in a delicate pattern. This was an ex-pheasant.

The biker, though obviously shaken, maintained control without coming off his bike or the road and came to a stop. He took off his helmet, and then from some magical pocket, pulled out a box of wet-wipes, and set to cleaning his helmet. After a few minutes, during which he cleaned off his leathers, he got on his bike and zoomed off. I bet he had a sore neck the next day...
MJB

 

[Farnboro John]

In Austria, just north of the Danube and close to Slovakia, I saw the staright courses of a motorcyclist (who wasn't hanging about) and a pheasant aiming to cross his path at about 90 degrees, intersect at helmet level. The exploded bird was instantly surrounded by an expanding, three-dimensional halo of feathers that all too soon drifted down in a delicate pattern. This was an ex-pheasant.

The biker, though obviously shaken, maintained control without coming off his bike or the road and came to a stop. He took off his helmet, and then from some magical pocket, pulled out a box of wet-wipes, and set to cleaning his helmet. After a few minutes, during which he cleaned off his leathers, he got on his bike and zoomed off. I bet he had a sore neck the next day...
MJB

Outside or inside?

My brother hit a pheasant (or vice versa) with his shoulder at 60 mph on his bike and he was both slowing and braced as he'd seen it coming just too late to avoid it completely. He reckoned if it had hit his face he would have been off and it could well have been curtains. Certainly the bruising was spectacular.

The subsequent history of the pheasant is unknown.

John

 

[Lerxst]

I am legally blind, and so counting heard-only birds is absolutely necessary for me. If someone was to come along and tell me, no sorry, you have to see the bird, I'd tell them to go jump off a very large cliff.

However, unless I have already studied the call exhaustively (which I try to do ahead of time, but there is never enough time before a trip to the tropics to learn them all), I will never take the guide's word for it and just tick a bird because he said such-and-such bird just sang. No, to call it a Lifer, my rule is that I must record the audio and then go double-check it against xeno-canto recordings to convince myself of the ID.

I used to be in the "have to see it" camp but it just got too damn depressing when everyone else in the group was getting the bird but I could not because of my eyesight issues. I just about gave up birding altogether at one point.

Now I find the aural part of it so integral to birding that I'm tempted to not count a new bird that I do happen see as a lifer unless I've heard it too.

Certain birds around here, that had been nemesis birds, were instantly ticked when I first heard them because I'd been studying their calls for so long. That is what happened with Black-billed Cuckoo, which I first ever heard five years ago. I'd dream about that call. When I finally heard it, I got an adrenaline rush. Never saw it. Then, this year, I finally saw one - the next best thing to a lifer - a visual lifer!

 

[bonxie birder]

It’s a great, if old, thread. I’m old school coming from the golden age of the 80s/90s and I’m definitely in the must see camp, although subsequent heard onlys are acceptable for my year list. However 40 years on and I still haven’t seen a quail and despite many many hearings it remains off all my year lists. Grrr.

My son is starting out on birding and I am suggesting to him that he should accept heard only. I’m not proud of the way I saw my corncrake (nothing illegal) and I would never recommend that to him or anyone. I believe we have moved on.

This thread has mentioned sunbirds and peacocks where seeing the bird is needed to get the full experience. However I challenge anyone to say that they don’t get a huge kick out of hearing their first willow warbler of the year. That for me is the experience I want of that species, not a sighting.

Seeing some birds is awesome, hearing others is equally, if not more, inspiring.

Your list. Your rules.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

It’s a great, if old, thread. I’m old school coming from the golden age of the 80s/90s and I’m definitely in the must see camp, although subsequent heard onlys are acceptable for my year list. However 40 years on and I still haven’t seen a quail and despite many many hearings it remains off all my year lists. Grrr.

My son is starting out on birding and I am suggesting to him that he should accept heard only. I’m not proud of the way I saw my corncrake (nothing illegal) and I would never recommend that to him or anyone. I believe we have moved on.

This thread has mentioned sunbirds and peacocks where seeing the bird is needed to get the full experience. However I challenge anyone to say that they don’t get a huge kick out of hearing their first willow warbler of the year. That for me is the experience I want of that species, not a sighting.

Seeing some birds is awesome, hearing others is equally, if not more, inspiring.

Your list. Your rules.

Just tick whatever Merlin bird app tells you is around. Job done 👍😉

 

[Paul Chapman]

Well this thread is my day in a nutshell. Up and out at dawn, with two friends, we were searching for Ruffed Grouse near Thessalon, Ontario. After an hour, we bumped into a local. He had heard one drumming. He then announced that he had just heard another. My two companions had also heard it. A bizarre increasingly quick low pitched hollow sound that recalls a distant piece of machinery starting up. I didn't hear it... Merlin also did not pick it up. It does not do well on lower pitched calls - I presume because of software to eliminate man-made noise?

One friend ticks birds on call. He had had a tick.

After a further hour, my other friend glimpsed one. The other two of us failed to see it. He had now had a tick. He had heard it and seen it but only a glimpse.

My other friend had still only heard it but had also had a tick as a heard only. I had neither heard it or seen it so I simply had a foul mood.

On the way back to the car, I finally heard one. These days, I simply input birds into eBird. Not all of them are yet in there but I can't say that it really bothers me if I have simply heard it or I have seen it. I really prefer to get a record shot however poor. Until that point, I am rarely happy...

We returned to our accommodation. We had breakfast and decided to carry on our journey with a bit more birding en route to our next accommodation in North Bay. We are heading to Algonquin. On the way, I put my checklists onto eBird. My total had gone up by one...

We got to North Bay at 5.00pm ish and had a very nice Italian meal. We were out looking for Ruffed Grouse again by 7.30pm. After we had heard three, my friend finally got on one deep in cover. He had already had a tick but he had upgraded his heard only. I could not get on it so I used my thermal imager to get a bearing. I had now seen its shape but only through a thermal. I then finally saw it through my bins. A tick I think but I was not really happy. I then got a rubbish record shot. I was finally happy.

It shuffled and looked as if it was going to walk away but instead, it shuffled and drummed. We had all seem it drumming. Now that was really an experience. Tick or no tick at that moment, I think all three of us had finally really experienced the species. I also improved on my record shot (but not by much)... 😀

Peronally, I wouldn't really worry about life ticks. Just maximise your experiences of each bird you see.

On the Merlin App topic, it has been interesting to put it through its paces in Ontario and Michigan. It has bugs even here - Red-eyed/Philadelphia Vireos & mysterious American Bitterns out of habitat - but for someone like me who has poor ears but is doing my best to catch up on vocalisations, it is superbly useful. It helps me identify and learn and listen to recordings instantly to test my learning. I thoroughly recommend it.

Attached a screenshot of Merlin analysing a minute of bird song at Pelee a back of camera Ruffed Grouse.

All the best

Paul

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Well put, Paul 👍

 

[Frank van Drogen]

I've got two columns, one I tick for hearing, one for seeing.

 

[GMS]

Only just came across this thread. As many have pointed out it's your list, so do what you want. I count heard only, can only think of Tengmalm's Owl and Rock Partridge on my life list that fall into that category. At the end of the day a record of a heard bird is still a record. Impossible to do e.g. survey work without relying on that. Similar for vismig with scarcities like Bee-eater, Serin or more common stuff like Tree Pipit often heard only.

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

Just tick whatever Merlin bird app tells you is around. Job done 👍😉

Does this mean I can add American Robin to my year list? 99% certain Merlin was picking up the subtle whistling noises my dog makes through his nose when he’s bored though😂

 

[Andy Lakin]

Coming back from the scoters near Leven the other week I stopped off at the Loch (can't remember its name) for the Ring Billed Gull on the way back. I got chatting to a local woman walker and she said that she had heard and SEEN 2 Capercaillie along the track about a mile distant. She remarked that they were definitely Capercaillie due to their distinctive calls.

I couldn't see the location due to the terrain so ploughed on round various bends and up and down hill all the while wringing with sweat as the better half was waiting in the car and we still had a 5 hour journey to do and I was in a rush. I resorted to wetting my head in the various streams along the way. After a while I realised that the 2 Capercaillie that she had seen/heard were in fact Red Grouse as that was what was calling in the distance from the track. The scenery was stunning but definitely not worth the trek for the odd Wheatear and a couple of grouse😀

 

[Frank van Drogen]

Does this mean I can add American Robin to my year list? 99% certain Merlin was picking up the subtle whistling noises my dog makes through his nose when he’s bored though😂

Oi.

Merlin actually picked up American Robin for me this afternoon here in Zurich..... I was by myself and walking uphill..... Hmmmm. I must sound like your dog