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Birding Scope plus Barlow. (1 Viewer)

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
A barlow is a negative lens placed between the telescope objective and the eyepiece and effectively increases the focal length of the objective to provide a magnification increase, usually around 2x. It is often asserted that a barlow will increase the eye relief, but this is not true. For the same magnification though, one could use an eyepiece with a longer focal length and this would usually have more eye relief.

In a recent discussion on Cloudy Nights on orthoscopic and Plössl eyepieces one member suggested that the manufacturing and assembly of such tiny elements in the short focal lengths required such precision that it might be better to use a barlow with a longer focal length. This seemed plausible and according to Rutten and van Venrooij in "Telescope Optics" a barlow can also reduce field curvature and astigmatism.

I still have a few astronomical eyepieces, though I don't own an astronomical telescope. I tried out a Televue 60 a few years ago but it didn't really offer any improvement on my Swarovski ATM 65HD and I retained the 3,5 mm Nagler I used in this comparison. It was useful for resolution measurements on the ATM 65 and Kowa 883 but exit pupils of 0,5-0,6 mm are problematic for me now with floaters. The idea was that a barlow in combination with my TV 11 mm Plössl would offer more magnification than the 60x of the Kowa zoom with a still acceptable exit pupil around 1 mm. I ordered a Baader Q-Turret 2,25x barlow, which was reasonably priced.

Well, it didn't work! :( It didn't work either with a 28 mm Edmund RKE, although this would almost have had the same magnification as the 11 mm on its own. I was unable to achieve focus at about 70 m.
However, one can unscrew the barlow lens fom its housing and insert it directly into the eyepiece for 1,3x and, surprisingly this worked with reserves of infinity focus with a 7,5 mm Baader Eudiascopic for a nominal 87x although the Eudiascopic will not reach infinity focus in the Kowa on its own.
It gave me good views of the Tapezium in the Orion nebula although I could discern the A, B, C and D stars at much lower magnifications in the Kowa, and very nearly in the ATM 65 at 30x.

Incidentaly, I don't really understand the preferences of some amateur astonomers for such small increments in magnification and also that many reject large exit pupils in suburban skies and prefer to "darken" the background sky with moderate exit pupils. In suburban skies at half moon I had a superb view of the Pleiades in the Kowa with the 28 mm RKE at 18x and 5 mm exit pupil.

John
 
I have never had problems using Japanese orthoscopic eyepieces of 6, 9, 12, 18 and 25mm focal lengths.
The 4mm does have minimal eye relief.

I also used Kelners with similar focal lengths. Also 50mm and maybe 60mm.

Erfles of 15.5mm, 20mm, 25mm and 32mm.

Huyghenians from 1/4 inch to 40mm.

Plossls from the Clave 3mm upwards.
The 3mm has minimal eye relief.

All of these eyepieces are well made and I don't think that good Japanese, British, French or U.S. makers have problems making short focal lengths.

Barlows from 1.5x to 5x.

Naglers from 7mm upwards. Also 3-6mm.

RKE 8mm upwards.

I didn't have any problems with exit pupils from 0.3mm to 7mm.
Although now 0.5mm is the smallest exit pupil I use.

The magnification used varies with conditions, object, sky brightness etc.
Also this varies depending on the telescope used, the quality of the telescope and whether the mount is driven or not.

One chooses whichever magnification one finds best.

There is no set rule.

Regards,
B.
 
The effect of a Barlow depends where in the imaging chain it is placed as much as its rating (2x, etc.)...
For example I shot the Moon with the following arrangement:
Scope-2x Barlow-Diagonal-Extension Tube-Adaptor-Camera
As I said it's a 2x Barlow, but in this configuration it will be about 3.5x...
 

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  • 5DR27316_ISO1600_Stack-first_AS_P100_lapl4_ap22743_conv_RegistaxWavelets_0-4_0-29_3_ps_flipped...jpg
    5DR27316_ISO1600_Stack-first_AS_P100_lapl4_ap22743_conv_RegistaxWavelets_0-4_0-29_3_ps_flipped...jpg
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The effect of a Barlow depends where in the imaging chain it is placed as much as its rating (2x, etc.)...
For example I shot the Moon with the following arrangement:
Scope-2x Barlow-Diagonal-Extension Tube-Adaptor-Camera
As I said it's a 2x Barlow, but in this configuration it will be about 3.5x...
The colour in the picture is extraordinary! Much more texture and variety than normal views of the moon.

Is it possible to get similarly vibrant pics with a Nikon P1000, or similar?
 
The colour in the picture is extraordinary! Much more texture and variety than normal views of the moon.

Is it possible to get similarly vibrant pics with a Nikon P1000, or similar?
I probably shouldn't have posted an image along with the comment, sorry if it was confusing. The colour has been brought out rather than visible to the Human Eye (I think this is the only time I've done that). The image is made by stacking. I give a step-by-step guide of what I did here:

Which should still be good (I update it occasionally as the software changes, does need a PC though).

I did stack a bunch of images from a RX10mk4 for someone and they came out nicely so a P1000 should be good if used on a tripod and carefully focused.
 
It is often asserted that a barlow will increase the eye relief, but this is not true.
Possible origin: aren't the huge "short" focal length eyepieces popular today for their eye relief (e.g. 3.5mm Pentax XW) essentially a longer FL combined with a built-in Barlow? (Does this end up improving FOV as well?)
 
A Smyth lens is a bit different to a Barlow and is designed for a particular eyepiece.

I think also called a negative positive eyepiece.

Regards,
B.
 
Possible origin: aren't the huge "short" focal length eyepieces popular today for their eye relief (e.g. 3.5mm Pentax XW) essentially a longer FL combined with a built-in Barlow? (Does this end up improving FOV as well?)
A Barlow would have no effect on the AFoV but I think designs like the Pentax XW (20 mm ER) or Nagler type 6 (12 mm ER) are intended to fulfil a simultaneous requirement for high magnification, large or acceptable ER, and a wide AFoV. Some time ago, Henry posted some cutaway and field curvature diagrams of Pentax XWs showing that each focal length was an individual design and that some had quite a lot of astigmatism.
A Barlow integrated with an orthoscopic or Plössl design would not make much sense, as similar results could probably be obtained with a separate Barlow.
However, there were a couple of "planetary" eyepieces with extremely short focal lengths designed to provide acceptable ER, the Pentax XO and Vixen HR.
The latter had 42° AFoV and 10 mm ER with focal lengths of 3,4 mm down to 1,6 mm! I can't understand how 1,6 mm focal length could provide any visual benefit as even with an f/5 scope the exit pupil would be a mere 0,32 mm with lots of empty magnification.
Apparently Barlows are made with a crown glass negative element and a flint glass positive element, just the opposite of a doublet objective, but that does make sense when you think about it.

Regards,
John

PS:- It seems that the Televue 2-4 mm Nagler zoom eyepiece has also been discontinued.
 
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The colour in the picture is extraordinary! Much more texture and variety than normal views of the moon.

Is it possible to get similarly vibrant pics with a Nikon P1000, or similar?
I had the P1000 and P950, a lot of fun. With someone that knows what they are doing with stacking or a star tracker I expect you could get some very nice pics after editing.
I've attached a shot of the moon from the P1000, I believe it was into digital zoom this close.
 

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