BirdLife [Malta] report reveals increased levels of illegal hunting (1 Viewer)

[Gallina]

If its true that you are maltese like me, were you on this island on the 27th and 28th of last September (Saturday and Sunday) ????????????????????????? Hilarious!!
Actually I was and caught 3 that day. I had BLM officals parked exactly near me and spent most of my time chatting away with them. You can verify this, there was a Serbian girl with the group. Ask her how many I caught because she asked and I told her. This was in Ghar Lapsi. Also ask for the data on how many shots were heard that morning, they took note of every single shot fired. Funny morning that one, experiencing things from the perspective of BLM and realising how little they know of hunting practises and basically what the hell is going on around them. A bewildered lot they looked

you must have been blind if you didnt notice the influx of quails on that day and they were all over, i over heard hunters boasting of having caught 75, 50 and 60....ha ha yeah pull the other oneapart from seeing tens of them being flushed by dogs and shot down by hunters whilst i was birdwatching. yeah yeah The night before as i was driving in a country road (i had spent half the night guarding a lesser spotted eagle that had roosted) i flushed three quails from the middle of the road!yeah yeah I am sorry to tell you but your grounds arent prime at all if you havent seen quails on that day.......
50 hectares on Ghar Lapsi actually, wouldn't you say its one of the best for this time of the year?

This is the third time i am saying this, you can fool any one in saying that here there are no birds and we are living in a desert but not me!!!!!!!!!!!! You can say it 50 times for all I care. Fact is that Malta is not on the MAIN flypath for any type of migrating bird. If it were, the 'good days' wouldn't be limited to 1 or 2 but we would see healthy numbers flying in on a regular basis throughout the season as is the case in other countries. Can you mention any other day, other than the 27th and 28th (although the 28th wasn't good in reality but just another figment of your imagination) when large numbers of quail were reported? No you can't for sure otherwise it would be another sick lie. Take thrushes for example. There was only one day this season when they appeared in numbers one could call meaningful, and we're already past the migration peak.
I have been out birdwatching nearly everyday from the 3rd week of august so dont think that us birdwatchers arent aware of things.Yr very much aware, so aware that you have to twist the truth. It is true that our migration is highly affected by weather thank you but doesnt mean that we dont get hundreds of raptors on certain days in september, some other days are quiet true but for god sake not miserable as you say!we must be living on different islands then
And no, 25 days out of 30 would be miserable and on the occasional day when a SE or NE is blowing one would see more birds of prey. And again, the SE or NE has to be a new wind because as soon as its over a day old then pooff, no birds to be seen.
As regards the honey buzzard migration in spring, it only takes a sudden change from a southerly wind to a northwesterly one to shift the main migration over our island, wrong again actually, a NW is one of the worst winds for bird migration over Malta together with a W and SW. A S isn't too bad and it improves as one progresses up the compass. and it has happened more than once with hundreds of them being seen, beautiful phenomenon....NOOOOOOO...... GOD please spare us from anymore of such days.... i dont want to remember,OH GOD let's dramatise some more and impress these people here like we haven't conditioned them enough. i have still the news paper cutting of the police saying that the situation was out of control and an estimated 900 honeys were shot down in one i say 1 single evening -BS, an outright lie and fabrication. This was an allegation and to date not even one person has been arraigned, it was all a scam to close short the hunting season. It worked, as a result of which the law-abiding hunter suffered the police said so not birdlife or cabs.Actually it was the other way round, BLM and CABS alleged it. Your lies know no bounds. Thank god these days dont happen often but they are not just a freak.

Gallina i categorically disagree with your statements regards the birds seen here. Its true that being a small densely populated island does not make us much attractive for birds thanks again but i think you only consider birds within your shooting range. And if what you say its true, why all this fuss to keep on shooting if there is nothing to shoot at? I didn't say there is nothing to shoot at but don't anyone run away with the idea that the shooting of quail or TDs in Malta is having any effect on the population of these two species because the numbers simply don't come this way. The effect of a season's shooting over Malta is probably the equivalent of that over Sicily in a day. How come would you say that 17000 hunters + families would today vote against EU because of hunting but then there is nothing to shoot at as you say? YES, the hunters were fooled by the EU and their impression of this institution together with that of our politicians is at an all time low and will remain so for a very long time. The vast majority would vote NO just like it didn't even go out to vote in the last general election such is the disillusionment at the moment.This is what i hate most of hunters, they never accept the truth and admit that there is a problem with hunters here, instead they deny the proven facts and say that birds dont even come here!
The few proven facts are miles and miles away from what is being claimed by BLM and CABS, that is the difference. I never said birds don't come, only that Malta isn't an important migratory path for birds. This argument emanated from an earlier post wherein it was stated that Malta is of huge importance in comparison to other countries in the Med and I countered that it is not because it is not on the central flyway and the numbers experienced here pale into insignificance when compared to the numbers arriving overseas. And no, there isn't a problem with hunters. There is a problem with poachers. There is also a problem with people like you Kestrel that insist on twisting facts for reasons known to you and the organisation that you form part of. U jekk inti minghalik li minhiex Malti minghalik hazin. Malti daqsek u Malta nghix. (And if you are under the impression that i'm not Maltese yr wrong, I'm as Maltese as you are and I live in Malta)

 

[Jos Stratford]

This was an allegation and to date not even one person has been arraigned, it was all a scam to close short the hunting season. It worked, as a result of which the law-abiding hunter suffered

This being the spring hunt, the one that violates European law? Who was the law-abiding hunter, wouldn't that be the one that stayed at home?

And no, there isn't a problem with hunters.

Wrong Gallina, there is a massive problem with hunters.

Hope your barbarians enjoy their slaughter, its days are limited. Like it or not, you are in the E.U., you can lie, you can try to distort the truth, you can complain that you feel outdone, but every day news flows out that contradicts everything you say. How long do you think your government can continue to defy European directives, how long can it stand by as its image is constantly dirtied?

Incidently, do you consider the killing of birds in spring as illegal? Do you shoot in spring? If so, will you continue to do so come what may?

 

[steve west]

A kid in class throws a rubber at the back of a teacher's head. Nobody owns up to it, so what happens? The whole class gets detention.

A poacher shoots a bird of prey, the hunters in the same class know who it was but say or do nothing. The EU bans hunting of any kind on the island of Malta.

Right or wrong that's the way these things are often solved. If you are a hunter and you don't want detention you have the first chance to tell your classmates to respect the rules.

Steve
http://www.BirdinginSpain.com

 

[Martin Thomas]

Gallina - No hunter got charged for shooting the ranger in the face so I suppose that was more proof of your conspiratorial lie theory?

I'm still waiting for your peer reviewed evidence to counter the scientific facts I've placed at your feet as well as honest answers to questions that I and countless others here have put to you. Instead you continue with your pathetic troll-like cut and paste attempts to appear not to have blood on your hands.

You're actually becoming more pathetic in your stance with each post you make and in case you haven't noticed, you haven't convinced a single member with your absurd views. Why not go and enjoy chatting to your friends on a more appropriate forum so that we can get on with discussing the most effective means to at least get the Maltese government to make it's gun-loving citizens abide by the law and do what we can to stop bloodthirsty people like you from the unneccesary killing of our avifauna?

In the meantime, in my failure to track down the Serbian girl I'll use your figures at face value. 3 quail x 15,000 legal hunters = 45,000 dead wild birds. Significant?

 

[Fitzwallop]

More of the same

I have just returned from a break in Malta staying in a place where we have often stayed before - a typical Maltese village called Mqabba. I was woken up every morning - not by the call of birds - but by a veritable cavalcade of gunfire from all directions splitting the tense air. This continued throughout the day. Firing from makeshift hides and old stone towers these "brave" hunters have one aim, and one aim only - to shoot as many birds as they can in as short a period as they can, to satisfy their crazy blood-lust. Their trophy displays are stuffed full of the fruits of their cruel pursuit. I know this because I have spoken to Maltese hunters. They are not concerned with the feelings of birdwatchers, tourists or European lawmakers. They believe they have a god-given right to shoot and trap whatever birds they like, whenever they like. Make no mistake - the extent of this problem should not be underestimated. Malta has a registered 14,000 hunters - a perverse number indeed for such a tiny country. The means these heathens are prepared to go to to protect what they believe is their birthright know no bounds. Yesterday I spoke to a bird loving Maltese man whom told me he almost lost his life when he had personally intervened to prevent the shooting of some rare species. What is going on in Malta is a slap in the face of the civilised world and an international outrage. We all must support the efforts of BirdLife Malta to protect the lives of all birds under threat from this continuing slaughter and add our individual voices to a very important campaign.

 

[Jack Dawe]

Thank you, Fitzwallop, for your first-hand confirmation of what we all already know only too grimly. Nothing in this thread has altered my view that this country stinks in the nostrils of civilisation. All EU funding should be withheld until there is clear evidence that it has mended its ways.

 

[Jack Dawe]

Hunting in spring cannot be anything other than absolutely unacceptable. Killing pre-breeding adults is the most effective way to engender and accelerate decline in any species.

Yes. Answer this point, Gallina.

I am still waiting, Gallina.

 

[Stevie babe]

17,000 hunters is about 4% of the population of Malta. Hadly a representative proportion. Gallina - You lose - get off this forum and stop wasting everyone's time and giving us and you palpitations (brought on by anger). But think on this.

Stop hunting = an additional 1 million potential eco holiday makers from UK alone
Put down your gun = (you seem to know about birds) become a guide.

 

[Vectis Birder]

Vectis Birder
Anyway, you can't justify what you do to us, as on here we are birdwatchers, not bird killers. What you do is abhorrent to decent people.

I don't need to justify what I do with anyone. I'm not presumptious enough to think I can change anyone's views or principles. But I expect that others respect mine and do not try to take away my rights, so long as what i'm doing doesn't harm anyone and is practised in compliance with the law.

And what, exactly, gives you the RIGHT to blast birds out of the sky? I am all for respecting rights, but as far as I am concerned people's 'rights' end when then they inflict pain and suffering on other animals for kicks. It's barbaric, not civilised and not deserving of any rights whatsoever.

 

[Jos Stratford]

I expect that others respect mine and do not try to take away my rights, so long as what i'm doing doesn't harm anyone and is practised in compliance with the law.
[/COLOR]

Glad to see a degree of understanding in that sentence ...ie. compliance with the law. So, as a member of the E.U., you do accept you should comply with the law. When Malta learns to do this, and its government sees fit to enforce this, it will be a good day - we will see no spring shooting and will see no routine disregard of the shooting of protected species, be they Black Storks, Bee-eaters, Greater Flamingos, Honey Buzzards, Lesser Spotted Eagles, etc.

 

[John Cantelo]

The situation as it currently stands in Malta (as in the UK and elsewhere in Europe) means that, whether you like it or not, people do have the legal right to ‘blast birds’. However, as I’ve tried to point out earlier, this right has to be tempered by the law – be it national or supra-national – and subject to societal constraint. If we start along this particular road we will slide into a debate about my ‘right’ to eat meat, fish, eggs, etc. and your right to impose your beliefs on others when our focus should, rightly, be squarely on the issue of hunting on Malta. Worse, by broadening the debate in this way, it allows those that support what we rightfully regard unacceptable and frequently illegal, activity to change the ground of the argument to their advantage. Until the majority of the Maltese population are vegans or vegetarians, such ‘animal rights’ views will not hold sway on Malta (or, for that matter, elsewhere).

One thing that has worried me as this thread has progressed is the gradual inflation in the actual numbers of hunters on Malta – is it 12,000, 14, 000 or 17,000? Although the higher figure may be used to support the popularity (and hence the support for) hunting it also suggests an enormous difficulty. Whichever way you look at the figures this is still very much a minority occupation for the Maltese population; between 3% and 4.25% of the population. Now think about the regular problems a smaller number of ultra-keen twitchers cause on an island the size of the UK. Objectionable though some might find them, these twitchers scarcely need the sort of cordon sanitaire that each hunter must surely have to observe on safety grounds. I’ve no idea how many of these 17,000 hunters are active and may be out shooting at any one time, but even if it’s as small as 10% (and I suspect it’s much higher) then that’s an awful lot of hunters roving round a very small available amount of space chasing an ever decreasing number of birds. (A quick glance at the map suggests 20-30% of the Maltese islands are too built up to allow hunting and still more areas must be too close to roads/tracks for safety. It would be interesting to see the precise figures). Given this pressure on the land, it’s little wonder that reserves are regularly desecrated and illegal quarry species too often targeted. Certainly for the non-hunting majority of Maltese (and visitors) enjoying the countryside must be difficult or downright impossible during the hunting season. Whilst birds might not have the absolute right to protection from ‘blasting’, I think the 95+% of those Maltese who don’t hunt have some sort of right to peaceful, undisturbed enjoyment of their limited countryside. Now I appreciate that all this is somewhat theoretical as I’ve not visited Malta personally, but it is certainly reflected by the anecdotal reports (e.g. FitzWallop's testimony) of those who have been there. Whether Maltese hunters like it or not, at 17,000, 14,000 or even 12,000 their numbers are simply far too high either for the game they shoot or for the equitable enjoyment of the countryside by other members of their community. It's time for them to appreciate that thier hobby, as currently practised, has, on Malta at least, reached a dead-end. The more I hear of the arguments presented and the more I consider the situation, then the more I am put in mind of a bunch of out dated dinosaurs bemoaning the existence of pesky little mammals. The time for rampant, unchecked hunting on Malta is long past; it is simply inimicable to normal life on such a tiny, overcrowded island,

John

 

[Vectis Birder]

The situation as it currently stands in Malta (as in the UK and elsewhere in Europe) means that, whether you like it or not, people do have the legal right to ‘blast birds’.

Well, as for 'inflicting my beliefs' on people such as Gallina, then I make absolutely no apology for it whatsoever; Gallina's inflicting his beliefs on here, it looks like he can dish it out but not take it. And I'll leave that particular debate at that, as I'm not looking for an argument with you, John, as most of what you say is eminently sensible, if a little verbose at times; and neither do I want to muddy the waters of the debate on illegal and uncontrolled hunting with the wider scope of other issues.
As an aside, I don't actually eat meat (I find it revolting), but have no problem with people doing a modicum of hunting for food. It's the killing for kicks and the uncontrolled blood lust and slaughter as displayed by the hunters of Malta, Italy etc, that I have a problem with.

However, what goes on in Malta is NOT legal; the EU which Malta belongs to has banned illegal hunting, yet the Maltese choose to ignore this. Why, then, are a bunch of 'dinosaurs' allowed to get away with this and, simply put, continue to stick their middle finger up at the EU?

 

[John Cantelo]

Well, as for 'inflicting my beliefs' on people such as Gallina, then I make absolutely no apology for it whatsoever; Gallina's inflicting his beliefs on here, it looks like he can dish it out but not take it. And I'll leave that particular debate at that, as I'm not looking for an argument with you, John, as most of what you say is eminently sensible, if a little verbose at times; and neither do I want to muddy the waters of the debate on illegal and uncontrolled hunting with the wider scope of other issues.
As an aside, I don't actually eat meat (I find it revolting), but have no problem with people doing a modicum of hunting for food. It's the killing for kicks and the uncontrolled blood lust and slaughter as displayed by the hunters of Malta, Italy etc, that I have a problem with.

However, what goes on in Malta is NOT legal; the EU which Malta belongs to has banned illegal hunting, yet the Maltese choose to ignore this. Why, then, are a bunch of 'dinosaurs' allowed to get away with this and, simply put, continue to stick their middle finger up at the EU?

Although I think you have somewhat misunderstood my point, you're absolutely right to suggest both that we shouldn't look for an argument here and that I'm overly verbose.

Meanwhile in my paper today there's a report on the decline of farmland birds which specifically mentions Turtle Dove as a species in serious trouble in the UK (as it is elsewhere in Europe). Regardless of where the blame or this may lay, it makes it hunting them untenable; doubly so in the spring,

John
PS - I hope that was short enough!

 

[Vectis Birder]

Although I think you have somewhat misunderstood my point, you're absolutely right to suggest both that we shouldn't look for an argument here and that I'm overly verbose.

Meanwhile in my paper today there's a report on the decline of farmland birds which specifically mentions Turtle Dove as a species in serious trouble in the UK (as it is elsewhere in Europe). Regardless of where the blame or this may lay, it makes it hunting them untenable; doubly so in the spring,

John
PS - I hope that was short enough!

Ah well, I am not exactly on my usual scintillating form today! I have put my foot in my mouth a few times this evening! Overcelebrating a football match win is partly responsible! :-O

And, you are dead right about hunting being untenable, especially in spring, John.

 

[Kestrel21]

And no, 25 days out of 30 would be miserable and on the occasional day when a SE or NE is blowing one would see more birds of prey. And again, the SE or NE has to be a new wind because as soon as its over a day old then pooff, no birds to be seen.
As regards the honey buzzard migration in spring, it only takes a sudden change from a southerly wind to a northwesterly one to shift the main migration over our island, wrong again actually, a NW is one of the worst winds for bird migration over Malta together with a W and SW. A S isn't too bad and it improves as one progresses up the compass. and it has happened more than once with hundreds of them being seen, beautiful phenomenon....NOOOOOOO...... GOD please spare us from anymore of such days.... i dont want to remember,OH GOD let's dramatise some more and impress these people here like we haven't conditioned them enough. i have still the news paper cutting of the police saying that the situation was out of control and an estimated 900 honeys were shot down in one i say 1 single evening -BS, an outright lie and fabrication. This was an allegation and to date not even one person has been arraigned, it was all a scam to close short the hunting season. It worked, as a result of which the law-abiding hunter suffered the police said so not birdlife or cabs.Actually it was the other way round, BLM and CABS alleged it. Your lies know no bounds. Thank god these days dont happen often but they are not just a freak.

Dear expert in migration, as you said the southerly winds are good for birds of prey passage and when these change abruptly to NW we get influxes of birds of prey when this happens in spring, The NW shifts the birds over here and that is why on some occasions in late april or early may we get large flocks out of nowhere. And yes the incidents i quoted and the 900 figure was give by police namely ALE, what you are referring to is the reports of MAY 07, but the occasion i mentioned was before that and hunting season proceeded normally despite 900 h buzzards were shot down according to the police.

As regards the quail passage, no hunter ever expects to bag birds every day of his outing, like you seem to expect..... I mentioned a good passage of quails and many hunters (except you it seems) got their fair share, my point was that unlike you said this is an alternative to spring hunting. You can call us watchers liars and fabricators, however i ask if it is so, how come such a large (members) hunting lobby is finding it difficult to pass on the real truth? Cause lets face it, the hunting fraternity are only moaning about lies and more lies but it seems that they cant prove otherwise....

 

[Gallina]

Dear expert in migration, as you said the southerly winds are good for birds of prey passage and when these change abruptly to NW we get influxes of birds of prey when this happens in spring, The NW shifts the birds over here and that is why on some occasions in late april or early may we get large flocks out of nowhere.
I actually said it isn't bad, when compared to a NW, W or SW. It improves from a S up the compass. Whoever or whatever gave you the idea that a NW is a good wind? It is terrible. Surely you mean NE.

And yes the incidents i quoted and the 900 figure was give by police namely ALE, what you are referring to is the reports of MAY 07, but the occasion i mentioned was before that and hunting season proceeded normally despite 900 h buzzards were shot down according to the police.
Please, show us this newspaper cutting.

how come such a large (members) hunting lobby is finding it difficult to pass on the real truth? Cause lets face it, the hunting fraternity are only moaning about lies and more lies but it seems that they cant prove otherwise....
On the contrary, it seems like BLM and CABS are sensationalising during the season, and then, in their reports, can only come up with the grand figure of 55 protected birds gunned down. The year before I believe it was 21

Thank you, Fitzwallop, for your first-hand confirmation of what we all already know only too grimly. Nothing in this thread has altered my view that this country stinks in the nostrils of civilisation. All EU funding should be withheld until there is clear evidence that it has mended its ways.
Where does this demand leave countries like the UK or Germany? Shouldn't you be demanding economic or political sanctions against these 2 countries too? What can you smell in MAlta that you can't in the UK?
Just leafing through the threads here I can talk about far more incidents in the UK alone namely:
the mass swan grave uncovered last year
the 7 cygnets shot in L/pool
the 135 buzzards killed in Shropshire
The peregrine found shot in quarry
The peregrine trapped in Kingswinford in the W Midlands
Red kite shot in the Wolds
Axe gang that tried to chop a tree to steal buzzard chicks in Knowsley Village
The fact that in Scotland it is now legal to take Seagulls
The 6 buzzards poisoned near Greenlow in Berwickshire
The 2 kites found poisoned near Otley in W Yorkshire

What about Germany where raptors are still on the huntable species list?
http://www.komitee.de/en/index.php?massacre_dueren

BLM's report concerning illegal hunting during the raptor camp 2008 stated that 55 protected birds were killed. This clearly proves that they were feeding the media into a frenzy all along and nobody here questions it. This pales into insignificance when compared to what goes in your country. If Malta stinks in the nostrils of civilisation you're knee deep in manure on your own home turf.

Hunting in spring cannot be anything other than absolutely unacceptable. Killing pre-breeding adults is the most effective way to engender and accelerate decline in any species.
Yes. Answer this point, Gallina.
I am still waiting, Gallina.

I did, on many an occasion. Malta is not on the main flyway for any migrating bird. The numbers taken over Malta are few and takings do not dent the population of migrating birds. This is Malta's reality. There is no alternative to spring shooting in Malta.
So in short, I am not stupid enough to deny that if all EU countries had to allow spring hunting it would have a negative effect on populations of the birds in question, but given MAlta's unique case ie, of having no spring alternative, and of having no effect on the breeding populations this statement has no bearing. This is the case that is present before the ECJ. Just like the UK can shoot at wood pigeon all year round, including spring, and just like 101 other hunting and trapping derogations are applied all over the EU, we expect that our unique position will be taken into consideration to allow for the taking of doves and quail in spring.

I have just returned from a break in Malta staying in a place where we have often stayed before - a typical Maltese village called Mqabba. I was woken up every morning - not by the call of birds - but by a veritable cavalcade of gunfire from all directions splitting the tense air. This continued throughout the day.

Mr Fitzwallop, in case you didn't notice, its open season in Malta, yr definitely going to hear shots ringing out just as much as you would in the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain or France the only difference is that here, a gunshot fired off in the E would be heard in the W.

Firing from makeshift hides and old stone towers these "brave" hunters have one aim, and one aim only - to shoot as many birds as they can in as short a period as they can, to satisfy their crazy blood-lust
I've been to the UK, in Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter, and have witnessed first hand the taking of as many woodpigeons as possible, also from makeshift hides. Why do you try and make it seem that there's carnage of an unprescedented scale going on here? The taking of a whole season in Malta compares well to the taking of just one day in your country.
Mr CAntelo

If there really isn't any alternative to shooting birds in spring then shooting itself on Malta simply cannot continue.
We'll leave this up to the ECJ.
The situation as it currently stands in Malta (as in the UK and elsewhere in Europe) means that, whether you like it or not, people do have the legal right to ‘blast birds’.
Exactly
However, as I’ve tried to point out earlier, this right has to be tempered by the law – be it national or supra-national – and subject to societal constraint. If we start along this particular road we will slide into a debate about my ‘right’ to eat meat, fish, eggs, etc. and your right to impose your beliefs on others when our focus should, rightly, be squarely on the issue of hunting on Malta.
Actually, it should be on the issue of illegal hunting in Malta because here we have somehow ended up discussing two contarsting topics, the illegal issue and that of sustainable hunting. We should focus on extracting the truth and separating the real underlying issues. We're in this together here. As a bona fide birdwatcher you should be careful of not falling into the traps that others are laying, and I, as a bona-fide hunter, who's practise is at stake because of the exaggerations coming from certain quarters should be equally vigilant.

One thing that has worried me as this thread has progressed is the gradual inflation in the actual numbers of hunters on Malta – is it 12,000, 14, 000 or 17,000?
12,000 hunters and 4,500 trappers

I’ve no idea how many of these 17,000 hunters are active and may be out shooting at any one time, but even if it’s as small as 10% (and I suspect it’s much higher)
Lets talk about the 12,000 hunters because it is safe to assume that the trapper doesn't shoot whilst trapping.
Speaking from gut feeling, it would definitely be higher than 10% but it would be ludicrous to assume that 12,000 are out in the field at the same time. There's a strong element of natural wasteage. My elderly father still holds a hunting license but hasn't fired a shot in over 30yrs. Like him there could be many. Friends of mine, who have become so disillusioned with the situation as it is today, still hold a license but never or rarely go out. Others I know keep their license merely to travel with since there is virtually little or nothing to hunt for here. Like them there could be many.
During the quail and TD season it would be safe to assume that who hunts for the former won't be hunting for the latter. Whilst one activity demands the sitting and waiting for hours on end for a TD to appear the other demands actively walking for hours in an attempt to flush a quail. That doesn't go to say that whilst hunting for quail one could not encounter a TD.
Then there are those that aren't interested in either and merely spend their time at sea for duck, or in their hides for thrushes. So in short there's quite a
mix in what these 12,000 individuals could be doing. Ah, and we can't forget the poacher. There are individuals who, for reasons known to themselves only, actively seek out birds of prey and wouldn't be interested in quail or TDs. These are the types that are in it for the trophy or for the money (yes, there is a lot of money involved in trophy taking). Like everywhere else these idiots exist and will carry on with their activity, hunting ban or not, but I can assure you that they are in their absolute minority and are in no way representative of the Maltese hunter or can mirror the hunting situation on Malta.
Certainly for the non-hunting majority of Maltese (and visitors) enjoying the countryside must be difficult or downright impossible during the hunting season.
The vast vast majority of hunting land is privately owned and will remain so even if hunting is abolished in MAlta. Hence the land can never be reclaimed or enjoyed by the non-hunting majority of Maltese (and visitors)
It's time for them to appreciate that thier hobby, as currently practised, has, on Malta at least, reached a dead-end.
With regards to the Spring hunting issue this remains to be decided by the ECJ. With regards to Autumn hunting, the day the UK, German, Italian, Spanish, Greek, French hunters lay down their shotguns would be the day when we in Malta would do the same. We are not 2nd class citizens of the EU and expect to be treated in the same manner.
Mr Stratford

This being the spring hunt, the one that violates European law? Who was the law-abiding hunter, wouldn't that be the one that stayed at home?

Up until spring 2008, hunting in spring, according to MAltese law, was legal. That the country, in your view, may have broken EU law is another matter and to be judged by the ECJ.
Incidently, do you consider the killing of birds in spring as illegal? Do you shoot in spring? If so, will you continue to do so come what may?
As of April 2008 spring shooting in Malta became illegal under MAltese law and I therefore consider it illegal and hence didn't go out. Before that it wasn't and I shot during spring in 2007,06,05,04,03,02....
Will I continue to do so come what may? No, i'll await the decision of the ECJ and see what the reaction of my government would be. If i'm allowed to shoot then I will, if not I won't. I'll probably catch a flight to the UK and do a spot of pigeon shooting instead.
Glad to see a degree of understanding in that sentence ...ie. compliance with the law. So, as a member of the E.U., you do accept you should comply with the law.
Yes, the govt has dclared that it will respect the decision handed down by the ECJ. This decision should be based on pre accession promises that hunting and trapping in spring will be retained and on Malta's unique situation
When Malta learns to do this, and its government sees fit to enforce this, it will be a good day - we will see no spring shooting and will see no routine disregard of the shooting of protected species, be they Black Storks, Bee-eaters, Greater Flamingos, Honey Buzzards, Lesser Spotted Eagles, etc.
Yes it would also be a good day when we will see no routine persecution of protected birds in the UK and Germany especially.

Vectis Birder
Well, as for 'inflicting my beliefs' on people such as Gallina, then I make absolutely no apology for it whatsoever; Gallina's inflicting his beliefs on here, it looks like he can dish it out but not take it.
I am not trying to inflict my beliefs on anyone, especially not here. It would be akin to walking into a mosque trying to convince those present about the Blessed Virgin Mary. There are however many misconceptions about Malta and I'm only trying to show the other side of the coin.
As they say, there are 3 sides to a story, his, hers and the truth. I'm hovering around the truth here.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Gallina,

You are appearing a joke - trying to draw comparisons between your nation and, for example, Britain. One nation has a cuture of conservation, not perfect, but good, the other has a culture of persecution, the few enlightened souls harrassed and threatened for daring to stand up. As you are unable to accept this, the offer still stands, we do a trip to the UK and to Malta, if you see more persecution in Britain than in Malta, I'll pay your costs.

Fact is, you won't.


And as for your petty moans about being a poor victim when joining the E.U., grow up. All new member nations had to accept unpopular measures, E.U. law overrides national law, end of story. Like it or lump it. Don't notice the Maltese saying no to the huge cash payouts, hypocrites.

 

[Gallina]

Gallina,

You are appearing a joke - trying to draw comparisons between your nation and, for example, Britain. One nation has a cuture of conservation, not perfect, but good, the other has a culture of persecution, the few enlightened souls harrassed and threatened for daring to stand up. As you are unable to accept this, the offer still stands, we do a trip to the UK and to Malta, if you see more persecution in Britain than in Malta, I'll pay your costs.

Fact is, you won't.


And as for your petty moans about being a poor victim when joining the E.U., grow up. All new member nations had to accept unpopular measures, E.U. law overrides national law, end of story. Like it or lump it. Don't notice the Maltese saying no to the huge cash payouts, hypocrites.

As much as I notice any Englishman saying no to the annual agricultural rebate you receive from the EU. Would love to see the EU holding back on that one given the large scale persecution of birds in the UK

Culture of conservation? you're joking aye? Haha what a good joke, british sense of humour at its best.

Listen mate, first and foremost, don't patronise me, I don't need any free holidays not from anyone, least of all you. Incidentally the same can't be said about CABS volunteers that were photographed on Malta's beaches and at cafes wearing CABS T's when they were meant to be birdwatching. That's a free holiday for sure.
In any case, next time i'm in the UK it'll be on a hunting trip, next one is due in January actually.
I sincerely doubt we need to meet up, your country's record speaks for itself. I already pointed out the illegal cases merely referred to in different threads on this very website and theyre enough to cast a huge shadow over the 55 protected birds shot over Malta as reported by your very own Bird Life Malta

 

[Martin Thomas]

Amongst other things Gallina, I'm still waiting for you to provide your peer reviewed evidence which disputes the scientific facts on migration that I've provided.

As I offered, do let me know where you'll be shooting when you're in the UK and I'll ensure my police wildlife crime contacts are certain you only visit establishments that are free of illegal activity. Just for the record, one of my contacts is monitoring your posts here with interest especially as he has been involved directly in raptor protection on Malta (which he paid for himself and didn't get a t-shirt). Perhaps you'd like me to ask him for permission to reproduce his observations or do I just assume you'd call him a conspiratorial liar too?

In the meantime I'm sure we're all enjoying your usual laughable lies.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Yeah right Galina, you're a little angel and sitting upon paradise on earth, pity the angels wish to be so blind.

Never mind, just continue your unconvincing line ...you're doing a grand job helping to keep your country's reputation exactly where it deserves to be, down in the dirt. Congratulations.