Blythi Lesser Whitethroat? (1 Viewer)

[Julian Bell]

I found an interesting Lesser Whitethroat that looked and sounded like one of the eastern varieties today on the island of Hernar, near Bergen, Norway today (07 November).

Blythi seems like the most likely suspect.....any thoughts?
I don't have much experience with this subspecies, although consider myself familiar enough with curruca

Video with sound including several calls here:

 

[Muppit17]

I think you are right is saying this not nominate, but then that leaves a question of which of the subspecies it is; halimodendri (clade 1 or 2), althaea or blythi.

I have to say of all of these (although I have seen them all) I am most familiar with althaea and halimodendri as I go to central Asia each year.

The video shows an active and dynamic bird, certainly not the same bulky and almost ponderous movements I associate with althaea. So I suspect this is either halimodendri or blythi.

Plumage variation is very difficult to judge without some notes, but the photos seem neutral and good balance. It seems predominately greyish on the mantle, but I notice that the posterior view seems to show this browner that the photo from the front. Very over simplistically brownish = halimodendri; greyish = blythi

The photo of the spread tail seems to suggest a totally white inner web to R6 and a wholly dark R5. That appears extreme for blythi from my normal reference (Svensson) but not that unusual for halimodendri (although Svensson doesn't cover it well).

Certainly to me, if I was in central Asia I would think of it as halimodendri but perhaps this is simply because I don't see (or expect to see) many blythi.

Happy to defer to anyone with other ideas

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

The bird can be heard calling in the video clip, the scolding Tit-like churring surely points to halimodendri compare here XC378942 Lesser Whitethroat (Curruca curruca)

Grahame

 

[Scridifer]

I can't add anything on the ssp. but they are cracking photos Julian!

Chris

 

[Ribbon]

Nicely documented.

Is there, apart from DNA sampling, any progress regarding diagnostical features to separate blythi, halimodendri and althea?

 

[Michał Jaro]

Nicely documented.

Is there, apart from DNA sampling, any progress regarding diagnostical features to separate blythi, halomodendri and althea?

Yes . And I can say (even though I'm a complete dilettante) this bird is holimodendri
Where does my confidence come from? I was looking for answers to these questions myself. It turns out that holimodendri is an ssp. that has a specific, diagnostic call (maybe most diagnostic from all curruca ssp.).
To my ears it sounds exactly 100% like the voice from the recording above. Check it out for yourself reading this great article:

Identification of the ‘Lesser Whitethroat’ species complex – Nick's Bird Blog

 

[Ribbon]

Thanks

Enough to dive into.

 

[Julian Bell]

I think you are right is saying this not nominate, but then that leaves a question of which of the subspecies it is; halimodendri (clade 1 or 2), althaea or blythi.

I have to say of all of these (although I have seen them all) I am most familiar with althaea and halimodendri as I go to central Asia each year.

The video shows an active and dynamic bird, certainly not the same bulky and almost ponderous movements I associate with althaea. So I suspect this is either halimodendri or blythi.

Plumage variation is very difficult to judge without some notes, but the photos seem neutral and good balance. It seems predominately greyish on the mantle, but I notice that the posterior view seems to show this browner that the photo from the front. Very over simplistically brownish = halimodendri; greyish = blythi

The photo of the spread tail seems to suggest a totally white inner web to R6 and a wholly dark R5. That appears extreme for blythi from my normal reference (Svensson) but not that unusual for halimodendri (although Svensson doesn't cover it well).

Certainly to me, if I was in central Asia I would think of it as halimodendri but perhaps this is simply because I don't see (or expect to see) many blythi.

Happy to defer to anyone with other ideas

Many thanks for the input. SInce my initial posting I've been looking at some literature and am coming around to the idea that it is, as you seem to suggest, halimodendri. Still working on it though

 

[Julian Bell]

Yes . And I can say (even though I'm a complete dilettante) this bird is holimodendri
Where does my confidence come from? I was looking for answers to these questions myself. It turns out that holimodendri is an ssp. that has a specific, diagnostic call (maybe most diagnostic from all curruca ssp.).
To my ears it sounds exactly 100% like the voice from the recording above. Check it out for yourself reading this great article:

Identification of the ‘Lesser Whitethroat’ species complex – Nick's Bird Blog

I've been looking at this article and it is very helpful. Not sure I understand it all but in principle holimodendri seems the likely suspect. Backed up by the new ID handbook of European birds.

 

[Michał Jaro]

It seems that the bird is more than suspicious - rather close (or completely) certain. Notice this quote:

'In Western Europe the call is frequently considered an important sign of halimodendri and as far as I’m aware, I have no knowledge or experience of a tit-like call in curruca, the subspecies that I’m familiar with. Those calls from the UK on xeno-canto that are tit-like all have captions which state that the bird was confirmed halimodendri. I would therefore suggest that the following call is a reliable characteristic unique to halimodendri'

 

[ammadoux]

I can't add anything on the ssp. but they are cracking photos Julian!

Chris

Agree the shots are stunning.

 

[Muppit17]

It seems that the bird is more than suspicious - rather close (or completely) certain. Notice this quote:

'In Western Europe the call is frequently considered an important sign of halimodendri and as far as I’m aware, I have no knowledge or experience of a tit-like call in curruca, the subspecies that I’m familiar with. Those calls from the UK on xeno-canto that are tit-like all have captions which state that the bird was confirmed halimodendri. I would therefore suggest that the following call is a reliable characteristic unique to halimodendri'

I would be a bit more cautious. There is very little information on the Eastern clade of halimodendri and the comparison with blythi. I have been to Kazakhstan & Uzbekistan where in theory blythi should pass through, yet I have never knowingly seen (or heard) one. I suspect they are not as distinct as proposed.

Looking at the paper, I also don't agree with the comments re the old 'desert LW' that I used to find in the UAE in winter. They are V different from the halimodendri they have now been ascribed to and I was only recently reminded of this by a recent resident of Qatar & Bahrain when we were discussing conundrums in the Gulf.

That is of course a whole different story. Still alot to learnt on LW I think.

 

[lou salomon]

I'd also be wary to identify a Lesser Whitethroat only by the tit-like (rattling or rolling) call - which occasionally can be given even by nominate curruca (personal experience and confirmed by a german expert in bird voices). Hopefully this one has been identified correctly, first note sounds a bit longer than that which I've heard in Danube Delta (beginning of september I think): XC641328 Lesser Whitethroat (Curruca curruca). Upperparts of the OP bird don't look particularly brown to me but might still be ok for halimodendri. Ear coverts aren't dark, which is pro halimodendri/blythi. Extensive white on tail also seems to confirm halimodendri and of course it is most likely in november. Still, I'd rather rely on birds in hand including DNA samples to clinch the taxon.