Budget Scope (1 Viewer)

[Thorsghost]

Hi All,

Got another budget Scope question I'm afraid.

Relatively new to all this, mainly because my son is massively into nature (so much so he has pretty much memorised the RSPB pocket guide of UK birds and corrects some of the more experienced birdwatchers in the hides 🤦‍♂️😂), he wanted to get himself some binoculars so after a little bit of research settled on some cheap but not too bad Bushnell Pacifica bins in 10x42 he bought with his own money (didn't want to break the bank in case he lost interest).
Ended up getting some binoculars (Praktica Pioneer R 10x42's) myself as fed up of missing or not seeing what he was looking at - which I now lose to my wife too, daughter has her own but not as interested so just cheap generic ones (8x25 in pink iirc). (Just to give an overall picture of the optics we have experience with).

As a family we quite regularly visit RSPB Pulborough Brooks as well as RSPB Pagham Harbour and WWT Arundel.
A lot of the birds can be just too far aware to get a good look at the RSPB sites and looking for a good beginner setup that's not going to break the bank.

I have seen some various second hand "deals" on eBay, but these are generally quite old scopes and wondered whether they are worth getting as a first foray into the world of spotting scopes?

RSPB AG80,

Kowa TSN-1,

Nikon 80a,

Opticron IF-2 MT

Couple of those come with tripods and are generally around the £100 mark.
Can probably stretch to £150 if something more suitable and would possibly like to get a mount/adapter for some basic digiscoping with a mobile phone - heathen I know.

Sorry for the essay (thanks for making it this far), hopefully this all makes a bit of sense and someone can help with some suggestions.

 

[Richard D]

Hi All,

Got another budget Scope question I'm afraid.

Relatively new to all this, mainly because my son is massively into nature (so much so he has pretty much memorised the RSPB pocket guide of UK birds and corrects some of the more experienced birdwatchers in the hides 🤦‍♂️😂), he wanted to get himself some binoculars so after a little bit of research settled on some cheap but not too bad Bushnell Pacifica bins in 10x42 he bought with his own money (didn't want to break the bank in case he lost interest).
Ended up getting some binoculars (Praktica Pioneer R 10x42's) myself as fed up of missing or not seeing what he was looking at - which I now lose to my wife too, daughter has her own but not as interested so just cheap generic ones (8x25 in pink iirc). (Just to give an overall picture of the optics we have experience with).

As a family we quite regularly visit RSPB Pulborough Brooks as well as RSPB Pagham Harbour and WWT Arundel.
A lot of the birds can be just too far aware to get a good look at the RSPB sites and looking for a good beginner setup that's not going to break the bank.

I have seen some various second hand "deals" on eBay, but these are generally quite old scopes and wondered whether they are worth getting as a first foray into the world of spotting scopes?

RSPB AG80,

Kowa TSN-1,

Nikon 80a,

Opticron IF-2 MT

Couple of those come with tripods and are generally around the £100 mark.
Can probably stretch to £150 if something more suitable and would possibly like to get a mount/adapter for some basic digiscoping with a mobile phone - heathen I know.

Sorry for the essay (thanks for making it this far), hopefully this all makes a bit of sense and someone can help with some suggestions.

If you can stretch to £145 - this looks like a decent deal (no connection to seller): NEW sony/nikon D=60 P MK 111- field scope & x20 eyepiece and sony telescope bag | eBay and you could add a different eyepiece at a later date if you got into it.

 

[dipped]

Hi All,

Got another budget Scope question I'm afraid.

Relatively new to all this, mainly because my son is massively into nature (so much so he has pretty much memorised the RSPB pocket guide of UK birds and corrects some of the more experienced birdwatchers in the hides 🤦‍♂️😂), he wanted to get himself some binoculars so after a little bit of research settled on some cheap but not too bad Bushnell Pacifica bins in 10x42 he bought with his own money (didn't want to break the bank in case he lost interest).
Ended up getting some binoculars (Praktica Pioneer R 10x42's) myself as fed up of missing or not seeing what he was looking at - which I now lose to my wife too, daughter has her own but not as interested so just cheap generic ones (8x25 in pink iirc). (Just to give an overall picture of the optics we have experience with).

As a family we quite regularly visit RSPB Pulborough Brooks as well as RSPB Pagham Harbour and WWT Arundel.
A lot of the birds can be just too far aware to get a good look at the RSPB sites and looking for a good beginner setup that's not going to break the bank.

I have seen some various second hand "deals" on eBay, but these are generally quite old scopes and wondered whether they are worth getting as a first foray into the world of spotting scopes?

RSPB AG80,

Kowa TSN-1,

Nikon 80a,

Opticron IF-2 MT

Couple of those come with tripods and are generally around the £100 mark.
Can probably stretch to £150 if something more suitable and would possibly like to get a mount/adapter for some basic digiscoping with a mobile phone - heathen I know.

Sorry for the essay (thanks for making it this far), hopefully this all makes a bit of sense and someone can help with some suggestions.

I would also consider the Opticron from Cleyspy. Returns accepted. Offers 28x rather than 20x and a bigger objective than the sony/nikon scope.

Opticron HR66 - 11331 | Buy Online at CleySpy

The quality Opticron HR66 - 11331 is available from CleySpy with a wide range of accessories (other filter)- buy online at fantastic prices

www.cleyspy.co.uk

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Congratulations on getting into birding and for inspiring the next generation!
Some good suggestions so far, here are a few more worth considering:

KOWA TS502/20X (WFV) :: In Focus

EXCELLENT CONDITION.

www.at-infocus.co.uk

Trial Seekers 16-48x65

Trial Seekers 16-48x65

www.ffordes.com

Kowa Green | 020700295334 | Cash Converters

Kowa Monocular. With Fabric Case and carrying strap. In Good Condition with no damage and no scratches.

www.cashconverters.co.uk

You will also need a tripod, the sturdier the better. If you are on a budget look for a velbon sherpa, silk D3 or any of the manfrotto series.

Most birders are friendly and will let you look through their scopes which may help you with your decision, otherwise try to visit a store or attend an optics day.

Hope this helps, and enjoy your birding!

 

[dipped]

I would also consider the Opticron from Cleyspy. Returns accepted. Offers 28x rather than 20x and a bigger objective than the sony/nikon scope.

Opticron HR66 - 11331 | Buy Online at CleySpy

The quality Opticron HR66 - 11331 is available from CleySpy with a wide range of accessories (other filter)- buy online at fantastic prices

www.cleyspy.co.uk

This looks even better. I don't think you'll find better value anywhere for £99. I have personally looked through this model (not this actual specimen), and it's a very decent performer. You may be able to pick up a wide angle fixed eyepiece at later date if desired.

AW80 Angle Scope + 20-60x Eyepiece

AW80 Angle Scope + 20-60x Eyepiece

www.ffordes.com

 

[jring]

Hi,

first of all, welcome to birdforum!

Of the scopes shown in this thread I would have a look at numbers 1, 2 and 4 in your post.

The rationale is that for a plain glass scope (sorry, no ED scopes in this price range), you want a fixed wide angle EP at 20-30x magnification because beyond 35-40x the view will get blurry due to longitudinal CA and the usual 20-60 zoom EPs will be very narrow below 35-40x.
The Kowa TSN-1 has the terrible 20-60x zoom (and also is going to be out of budget as it has a reserve price).

In the situation you have described (son avid birder, rest of the family tagging along), I would not recommend a straight scope as it is very unfomfortable to use if it is not exactly at eye level. This means, you can't share the view because changing the tripod height means loosing the bird. This rules out the HR66.

Joachim

 

[Thorsghost]

Hi,

first of all, welcome to birdforum!

Of the scopes shown in this thread I would have a look at numbers 1, 2 and 4 in your post.

The rationale is that for a plain glass scope (sorry, no ED scopes in this price range), you want a fixed wide angle EP at 20-30x magnification because beyond 35-40x the view will get blurry due to longitudinal CA and the usual 20-60 zoom EPs will be very narrow below 35-40x.
The Kowa TSN-1 has the terrible 20-60x zoom (and also is going to be out of budget as it has a reserve price).

In the situation you have described (son avid birder, rest of the family tagging along), I would not recommend a straight scope as it is very unfomfortable to use if it is not exactly at eye level. This means, you can't share the view because changing the tripod height means loosing the bird. This rules out the HR66.

Joachim

Should of put my son is only 9 so will be very different in height compared to me so didn't think about the straight through being a bigger issue - he is also a glasses wearer so eye relief important too.

Might message about the older opticron then as its local to me and see if can have a look/knock price down a bit as think it's been up a while, otherwise the Viking looks good.

Black Friday coming up end of the month too 😁

 

[jring]

Hi,

well the height difference will get smaller soon... and fixed EPs tend to have better eye relief than zooms in general, but it would be a good ideal to take your son along to try if it works with his glasses... unless it's supposed to be a surprise...

Joachim

 

[Thorsghost]

Hi,

well the height difference will get smaller soon... and fixed EPs tend to have better eye relief than zooms in general, but it would be a good ideal to take your son along to try if it works with his glasses... unless it's supposed to be a surprise...

Joachim

You're right it won't be long, they grow up so fast!
I was planning on making it a surprise present from Santa at Xmas....

The EP on the opticron appears to be a fixed x27 W (wide fov?), and the RSPB x33.5. Can't see anything on the Nikon at the moment but will message and see what they come back with.

 

[jring]

Hi,

the Nikon has a 25x EP... all three should be wide angle.

Joachim

 

[Bill Atwood]

Should of put my son is only 9 so will be very different in height compared to me so didn't think about the straight through being a bigger issue - he is also a glasses wearer so eye relief important too.

Might message about the older opticron then as its local to me and see if can have a look/knock price down a bit as think it's been up a while, otherwise the Viking looks good.

Black Friday coming up end of the month too 😁

I also wear glasses, but often remove them while using a scope. In my case the view is much improved.

 

[Thorsghost]

Sorry more questions while digesting everyone's advice so far.

I'm assuming that the Opticron, Nikon and RSPB scopes will all be similar with optical clarity/quality (or is one more of a stand out than the other?) but how would they compare to the Viking AG80 @dipped posted/suggested?

I'm also assuming the Viking would have a better re-sale potential due to being a newer scope should we not get on with a scope?

What would be a good tripod to get if I got the Viking or RSPB scope. I've seen Velbon and Slik mentioned before but wouldn't know which models and what kind of price should I be looking at new/secondhand.

Thanks Bill, will suggest this next time we are out with the binoculars.

 

[jring]

Hi,

all of the scopes mentioned should be able to offer a crisp image at around 30x with an easy to find point of best focus. If they don't, sth is wrong and you shouldn't buy.

I already pointed out, why a 20-60x zoom on a plain glass scope is a bad idea - but once again: A fast refractor with an achromatic doublet - as all of the scopes mentioned have - will get blurry beyond 35-40x due to a physical effect called longitudinal chromatic aberration... and the typical 20-60x zoom has a quite narrow apparent field of view of around 50 deg at that magnification - they only widen up to sth like 60 degrees (the usual limit for wide angle) near to the top end of 60x.

As for resale value, all the ones mentioned are quite cheap already - I would expect that you should be able to sell them again for sth close to the price you paid.
The Viking AW80 was introduced in 2012 according to this RSPB newsletter... search for AW80.

https://ww2.rspb.org.uk/community/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/01-12220-00-00-00-41-15-50/January-e_2D00_newsletter.pdf

So its not a lot younger than the others which were sold in the mid to late 2000s... and quite a bit more expensive.

Regarding tripods and heads, you ideally want legs with as few sections as possible and high enough so they can be used with the center column down or mostly so to reduce vibration (spotting scopes are much more susceptible to vibration than even supertele lenses due to higher magnification and longer observation time).
As for materials, wood has best vibration dampening and highest weight, carbon fiber has second best dampening and lowest weight, aluminum has worst dampening, middle weight and is cheap.
A so called fluid video head is best for birding as it will allow you to quickly aim your scope on a bird and even follow it in flight. A three axis head is kinda ok too but slower to use and not following. Stay away from ballheads - they don't work for spotting scopes - apart from some edge cases with very small scopes.

Joachim

 

[Thorsghost]

I know this was more than my original budget but seems like a steal at £225 for a scope with ED glass, what am I missing?

Vanguard Endeavour HD 82a

 

[jring]

Hi,

cheap chinese made (as many others are) ED spotter on clearance. Price seems good, the store seems to be more focused on things going bang than optics... could be a great deal, could be a lemon.

If you feel lucky, be prepared to thoroughly test it right after you receive it (we will gladly have a look at your artificial star test images) and to send it back if it not so great (and eat return postage and a 15 quid restocking fee which might add up to close what you would pay for the used plain glass ones).
Sample variation is a thing with spotting scopes and there are even alpha scopes (top of the line models from the teutonic trinity - Zeiss, Leica, Swaro - plus Kowa) out there which cannot deliver a crisp image at 60x.

Joachim

 

[Thorsghost]

Thanks for all your assistance.

Found what looked like a decent price for an Opticron HR80 GA with the HR2 EP in as new condition so put a cheeky offer in which was accepted (hopefully not a total lemon).
Opticron HR80 GA

Yes I know it's straight but most of the time we'll be using the scope from in a hide so me sitting/son standing should be minimal height difference.

Tripod, case and then we are set I think 😎😁

 

[jring]

Hi,

congratulations to your new (to you) scope. I am quite sure that it will give a great view at 30x with the EP included. Please test it and let us know how it worked out.

Good luck with getting a nice tripod and fluid head!

Joachim

 

[Thorsghost]

Hi,

congratulations to your new (to you) scope. I am quite sure that it will give a great view at 30x with the EP included. Please test it and let us know how it worked out.

Good luck with getting a nice tripod and fluid head!

Joachim

I've had a look through it (just by hand whilst waiting for the tripod) and looks clear and sharp.
Collected the tripod today (Velbon CX686 with PH-368 fluid pan head), hopefully get them tested properly over the weekend.

Very happy with what I paid for both and a nice surprise for the family I hope.

 

[Baldaresan]

Hey there! I know this response is a bit late, but I hope it can still be helpful to others. I recently got into birdwatching myself, so I understand the struggle of finding a good budget scope.