California, Raven or Crow (3 Viewers)

[delia todd]

I understand that Ravens and Crows in California can cause difficulties and have had this recent picture in the Gallery queried:

Raven

www.birdforum.net

Obviously I haven't a clue (never been to the States). The Opus Editors are split and suggested I ask you lot for help. Merlin App no help LOL

It would be nice to have a good discussion, then the thread can be linked to the relevant Opus articles.

 

[rkj]

American Crow for me. It is hard to judge from this angle, but the bill looks to have an even curve on the culmen; on a Common Raven it would be straighter at the base, curving more at the distal end.

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

My impression is crow. The bill looks way too small for raven.

 

[MitchP]

Looks like I should change the title? Sorry I'm such a poor birder! We have both species down there and I can never tell the difference. I think Google ID'd this one and I blindly accepted it.

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

No point in changing the title. And no apologies needed. We all started someplace.

 

[TicoTyler]

My gut says Crow but the shagginess of the throat feathers that are visible does give me pause to think Raven.

 

[Bewick]

My gut says Crow but the shagginess of the throat feathers that are visible does give me pause to think Raven.

Definitely a crow, the bill is far too small even for a 'western' raven.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Bill is much weaker and the culmen less curved in the bird in question than in North American Common raven photos online.
I can not see the bird in question as a Raven ...

I see Common (or Northern Raven as it is also called) in my place in Germany on a daily basis (mostly flyovers though) and have places where I can see 30-50 together on the ground (Communal rubbish dumps) ...

Common raven photos from me here:

https://flic.kr/p/2ji1S1p

https://flic.kr/p/2meTFak

https://flic.kr/p/2meZ3NV

https://flic.kr/p/2meV1yv

This has a bill structure like North American ravens from the Macauley library- and although I am in Germany Northern Raven should look the same in Europe and North America, a difficulty can be the separation from Chihuahuan Raven in North America as far as I know , but I do not think that is an issue here .

Some carrion crow hybrids (black crown x hooded crow) from Vienna, for comparison of bill size

https://flic.kr/p/EzQqKx

I know it is not the same species as American crows but rather similar in bill size...
some American crows for comparison

https://lightbox.allaboutbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/448100221.png

https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/109158805/large.jpg

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/mcdowellnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/02/b02fa064-35b1-11ec-a0a7-1fd5733aaeb4/6176dd064b3c3.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

As an aside: Find the raven among the crows ...

https://flic.kr/p/2kDMoxi

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

No point in changing the title. And no apologies needed. We all started someplace.

I agree no apologies needed,
but I think changing the title is essential if the gallery photos are intended to have the birds correctly identified ...

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

As an aside: Find the raven among the crows ...

https://flic.kr/p/2kDMoxi

Thanks Jörn,

I found it. Yes, Raven is larger, but it's regular not that obvious like in your picture. So it's a bird at the large end of variation?, considerable in this species.

But most important: congratulations for finding a White-rumped Sandpiper in Europe and thanks once more for sharing your excellent sketches here!

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

I agree no apologies needed,
but I think changing the title is essential if the gallery photos are intended to have the birds correctly identified ...

Sorry. I thought the OP was talking about the title of this thread. 😇

I agree the gallery photo title should be changed.

 

[delia todd]

Sorry. I thought the OP was talking about the title of this thread. 😇

I agree the gallery photo title should be changed.

LOL Jeff... I don't think he could have changed the title of this thread as I started it.

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

LOL Jeff... I don't think he could have changed the title of this thread as I started it.

D'oh!

We need a "head-slap" emoji.