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Canon 7D Mk II is announced and available for pre-order (1 Viewer)

Dave Williams

Well-known member
I find that if you use partial metering auto Iso gets it wrong, hence the EV adjustment. In fact all EV does is change the ISO setting but it's handy in varying light. I must try other metering modes !
How many fps do you get in silent mode ?
 

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
Hmm. Very interesting. I've just looked back at the EXIF detail for all the tree trunk shots and the difference is consistent.

They were all taken in similar light on AV, F5.6 and the 7DII gave consistently lighter results.

The reason appears to be in the figures below. I've listed the ISOs used and the shutter speeds chosen by each camera for the same shot.

7D

ISO 400, 1/60; ISO 800, 1/125; ISO 1600, 1/250; ISO 3200, 1/500; ISO 6400, 1/1250

7DII

ISO 400, 1/50; ISO 800, 1/100; ISO 1600, 1/200; ISO 3200, 1/400; ISO 6400, 1/800

Silent mode is 4FPS, normal is 10FPS
 

tdodd

Just call me Tim
Well we all know that underexposure is a great contributor to noise, so maybe the 7D2 metering is engineered on purpose to gather more light.

It's also interesting (possibly) to note that the 7D1 was unable to accurately double the shutter speed for double the ISO from 1/500 to 1/1000, instead going to 1/1250 and thus losing itself another 1/3 stop of precious light and putting it 2/3 stop under compared to the 7D2. When it comes to noise suppression ETTR is king and shooting sharp to begin with is surely queen.
 

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
I believe you can add EV compensation in manual, but I've not tried it. I tend just to adjust the shutter speed or ISO to get the same effect. I can do the former without moving my eye from the viewfinder.
You can add Ev comp in manual for sure by just changing the shutter speed or aperture but the question is can you do it if you are in auto ISO - up to now it is only the 1Dx that can do that. I would be most interested to know if the 7D2 has this facility.
 

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
I find that if you use partial metering auto Iso gets it wrong, hence the EV adjustment.
Maybe I have misunderstood you here Dave but I have never had any problems using Ev comp and auto ISO when using partial metering - in fact I find that my preferred method for shooting birds. Sure the metering between say, evaluative and partial will obviously be different as you are using a smaller area to meter from when using Partial whereas in Evaluative it is taking the whole scene into account albeit evaluative does give bias to the focus point (the only mode that does).
They are two different metering methods but which ever one you use there will always be times in bird photography that you need to use some Ev comp to correctly expose the bird. How much Ev comp you need is often down to how big the bird is in the frame. For instance a dark bird against a bright sky will require a lot of Ev+ if the bird is small in the frame - with the same scene where the bird is large in the frame you would certainly not need as much (if any) Ev comp.

At the end of the day I find that it is best to stick with one metering mode and get to learn how you Camera works in that mode over a wide variety of different scenarios. I guess the bottom line is that the metering method used is irrelevant as long as the bird ends up correctly exposed.
 
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Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
You can add Ev comp in manual for sure by just changing the shutter speed or aperture but the question is can you do it if you are in auto ISO - up to now it is only the 1Dx that can do that. I would be most interested to know if the 7D2 has this facility.
You're right, of course.

I was getting myself confused earlier and I was getting things conflated with your post a while ago on this very subject.
 

johnf3f

johnf3f
Maybe I have misunderstood you here Dave but I have never had any problems using Ev comp and auto ISO when using partial metering - in fact I find that my preferred method for shooting birds. Sure the metering between say, evaluative and partial will obviously be different as you are using a smaller area to meter from when using Partial whereas in Evaluative it is taking the whole scene into account albeit evaluative does give bias to the focus point (the only mode that does).
They are two different metering methods but which ever one you use there will always be times in bird photography that you need to use some Ev comp to correctly expose the bird. How much Ev comp you need is often down to how big the bird is in the frame. For instance a dark bird against a bright sky will require a lot of Ev+ if the bird is small in the frame - with the same scene where the bird is large in the frame you would certainly not need as much (if any) Ev comp.

At the end of the day I find that it is best to stick with one metering mode and get to learn how you Camera works in that mode over a wide variety of different scenarios. I guess the bottom line is that the metering method used is irrelevant as long as the bird ends up correctly exposed.

+1 that is the way I meter for the bulk of my photography, I find it works very well for me.
Still whatever works the best for the individual is the way to go!
 

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
I've had a look in the manual under Auto ISO settings and it explains how to set a maximum and minimum ISO range and also a minimum shutter speed, but no mention of exposure compensation that I could see.
 

HokkaidoStu

occasional moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Well nasty weather here in Hokkaido, grey drizzly skiies making me feel like I was back in Lancashire...............

Here are 5 shots taken today with the 7DM2 and the 500 f4. Very lightly processed in DPP/CS6. They are all cropped a bit too. I'm unfamiliar with post processing in DPP and CS6, I almost always use just Lightroom. They look a little soft to me, I hardly sharpened them at all as I wasn't sure of the best settings................I'll be happy when Adobe updates Lightroom to include new camera models.

I have to get to grips with the new AF system and menu. I set it up to mimic my 7D as far as I could re BIF settings. I'll read up about the various AF options over the next couple of weeks...............

Not especially interesting or challenging shots (except maybe the LT Tit). ISO from 400 to 3200 I think, EXIF should be intact anyway.

Not great shots, in fact I'll admit they are pretty crap but the light was just terrible. I don't think this is a great low light camera compared to FF but I wouldn't even have bothered trying to take any pics with the original 7D on this kind of day.
 

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HokkaidoStu

occasional moderator
Staff member
Supporter
And here are the originals, SOOC in the standard picture style and resized in DPP.
 

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Dave Williams

Well-known member
Maybe I have misunderstood you here Dave but I have never had any problems using Ev comp and auto ISO when using partial metering - in fact I find that my preferred method for shooting birds. Sure the metering between say, evaluative and partial will obviously be different as you are using a smaller area to meter from when using Partial whereas in Evaluative it is taking the whole scene into account albeit evaluative does give bias to the focus point (the only mode that does).
They are two different metering methods but which ever one you use there will always be times in bird photography that you need to use some Ev comp to correctly expose the bird. How much Ev comp you need is often down to how big the bird is in the frame. For instance a dark bird against a bright sky will require a lot of Ev+ if the bird is small in the frame - with the same scene where the bird is large in the frame you would certainly not need as much (if any) Ev comp.

At the end of the day I find that it is best to stick with one metering mode and get to learn how you Camera works in that mode over a wide variety of different scenarios. I guess the bottom line is that the metering method used is irrelevant as long as the bird ends up correctly exposed.

My apologies, I use Evaluative not Partial metering and haven't really strayed from it although I have tried Spot once or twice.I think you are right though Roy, stick with one and learn about the discrepancies in different conditions which is why I have always preferred Manual rather than other settings. The challenge now is that I have introduced some automation with Auto-Iso and I am trying to work against it by dialling in EV. Sometimes the ISO is soaring in number without me realising ... I can read it but I am too busy trying to capture the shot.As long as I am over exposing slightly I'm happy because the noise issue isn't as critical as when you underexpose. In fact I have been amazed how much detail can be recovered even when a shot is quite washed out in appearance.
 

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
I borrowed a rather venerable Mk 1 Canon 1.4 teleconverter today and had a few shots with my 400mm F 5.6.

Below the original image and a crop, some sharpening but no noise reduction 1/1250sec, F8, ISO 500, hand held. The edit looks a little soft to me, but I didn't want to over-sharpen and mask a result. Maybe this is due to hand-holding with the inherent risk of moving focus-point at the point of exposure, maybe it's a product of the old teleconverter glass, maybe its something else. I've no first hand experience of teleconverters, so I can't judge.
 

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tdodd

Just call me Tim
Are people checking AF accuracy/calibration with their lenses and TCs or assuming perfection straight out of the box? If the latter this might explain imperfect results in the absence of any other obvious explanation.

Personally I always check AF calibration with every body, lens and TC combination I use. It is rare that 0 micro adjustment is the best setting, even with L glass and pro or semi-pro bodies. There is a good reason that cameras, and now lenses in Sigma's case, include this adjustment feature.
 

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
A robin in poorer light, with just the bare lens, no telecon.

1/640 sec, F6.3, ISO 1000. Hand held.

First image unedited jpeg. 2nd image cropped and edited from RAW.

Some sharpening, no noise reduction.
 

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GYRob

Well-known member
Well i bought a 7dmkII and over all i think its got a lot going for it, these were taken with a 600f4is L mkII +1.4tc mkIII im not use to it yet but is fast and the AF is very good not quite 1dx good imho but it is the reach more than anything along with all the other bits too that make it a great birding camera .

I did quickly do the micro adjust but i think i can get it better ( i just wanted to get out )

I did not try it without a tc as that was todays test Reach .

iso was 800 with the bottom 2 shots 3200 and last 6400 and i have pp them all more or less the same way i always do but im sure i have to learn a bit more about the 7dmkII files as the raw wont open in photoshop . so pp work was a bit new .

A few shots from today.
Rob.








 

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
This morning in early morning sun, but with shade in the vegetation.

Taken on Tv with Auto ISO

1/1000 sec, F6.3, ISO 5000

1st image - full frame as taken, resized for web

2nd image - cropped, levels and colour cast adjusted, bird sharpened, no noise reduction.

3rd image - noise reduction applied selectively to bird (20% luminosity, 5% chrominance) and to background (50% in chrominance & luminosity).
 

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graham catley

Well-known member
And here are the originals, SOOC in the standard picture style and resized in DPP.
an actual test in other than bright sunlight - thanks Stu -- general impressions seem to be a bit subdued from people who have them or am I reading too much into it? sounds like there is a bit to learn in the camera but I wonder if people were expecting a mind blowing result, based on images that are highly processed and taken at close range in bright clear Florida sun, and they have not actually got that yet? Please keep updating as you find out more folks --
 
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