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Canon 7D Mk II is announced and available for pre-order (1 Viewer)

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
If you see a suitable moment you might remind them of a commercial truism that a previous boss of mine had on his wall:

"The customer is not always right, but there is no profit in proving him wrong."

Wex's rep has been rather good, and I would have thought of them - but I am reconsidering now, and I may not be the only one.... how many orders do they want to let slip?

John

This line in the reply I finally had from them this afternoon caused me no little concern;

'I have forwarded your emails to our call centre manager for further advice on this and his instructions on how he would like us to proceed'

I didn't think when I got in touch with them by email regarding a technical issue that I'd be dealing with a call centre.
 

djohnston

Tangara
I bought the 7D2 from HDEW just after New Year.
No problem with the service and delivery.
I've taken some shots which I thought were rather soft, but not variable.
I downloaded a calibration sheet from the web which required a bit of origami to construct.
Then I set up the camera on a tripod with the 10 second delay using the 400mm f5.6.
Then I aimed at the zero line and took several shots.
They were all softish at zero and sharp at around -2, which meant it was rear focussing.
I took them indoors because of the snow showers, and so the ISO is high at 4000 but the issue was the same.
I attach one of the shots here.
D
 

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Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
I bought the 7D2 from HDEW just after New Year.
No problem with the service and delivery.
I've taken some shots which I thought were rather soft, but not variable.
I downloaded a calibration sheet from the web which required a bit of origami to construct.
Then I set up the camera on a tripod with the 10 second delay using the 400mm f5.6.
Then I aimed at the zero line and took several shots.
They were all softish at zero and sharp at around -2, which meant it was rear focussing.
I took them indoors because of the snow showers, and so the ISO is high at 4000 but the issue was the same.
I attach one of the shots here.
D
I have always found that the AFMA needed can change considerably between different light levels. To get the correct adjustment it is essential to shoot in good natural light (with the lens wide open of course). As far as the distance goes Canon say 50x focal length so about 20 metres for the 400/5.6. Having said that I have also found that changing the distance (to say 10 metres) can give a different reading again, some folks use just inside infinity whereas others use a distance much nearer to MFD!!! I have had some strange results with tc's - a combo that say needs no MA with the bare lens may need plenty with a tc BUT the same tc on another lens may not make any difference! its all sent to confuse use I think :eek!:
 
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lewis20126

Well-known member
They were all softish at zero and sharp at around -2, which meant it was rear focussing.

Am I being daft when I say that a new camera should not be doing that? All very well some on here saying micro-adjuct this and so on, but I would hope the camera would focus on the point you are trying to focus on!

cheers, alan
 

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
Am I being daft when I say that a new camera should not be doing that? All very well some on here saying micro-adjuct this and so on, but I would hope the camera would focus on the point you are trying to focus on!

cheers, alan
Micro adjust is more to do with the lens than the camera (or at least matching the lens to the Camera). To be quite honest I would not have thought that a difference between 0 and -2 is that conclusive. Where a AFMA test is good is telling if a certain lens is way out one way or the other.
 

tdodd

Just call me Tim
Am I being daft when I say that a new camera should not be doing that? All very well some on here saying micro-adjuct this and so on, but I would hope the camera would focus on the point you are trying to focus on!

cheers, alan

You are being daft. The camera isn't working in isolation. It has a lens attached with an electromechanical focusing system. The camera can pass instructions to the lens, but that doesn't mean the lens obeys them correctly. Equally, due to price pressures both cameras and lenses are built to a price and subject to manufacturing tolerances. Sometimes calibration errors between camera and lens cancel out or become trivial. With other combinations of gear they may multiply. In the days of film and modest print sizes these focus errors may well have been overlooked. Nowadays our ability to pixel peep high resolution images on huge monitors means that flaws which may once have been overlooked are now magnified. The game has changed. If you want manufacturers to calibrate every device to a perfect standard then expect to pay for it, or with AFMA you can do it for yourself. Of course, under warranty, for Canon at least, you can send your gear in and have them do it for you.

Required reading for anyone - http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths
 

lewis20126

Well-known member
You are being daft. The camera isn't working in isolation. It has a lens attached with an electromechanical focusing system. The camera can pass instructions to the lens, but that doesn't mean the lens obeys them correctly. Equally, due to price pressures both cameras and lenses are built to a price and subject to manufacturing tolerances. Sometimes calibration errors between camera and lens cancel out or become trivial. With other combinations of gear they may multiply. In the days of film and modest print sizes these focus errors may well have been overlooked. Nowadays our ability to pixel peep high resolution images on huge monitors means that flaws which may once have been overlooked are now magnified. The game has changed. If you want manufacturers to calibrate every device to a perfect standard then expect to pay for it, or with AFMA you can do it for yourself. Of course, under warranty, for Canon at least, you can send your gear in and have them do it for you.

Required reading for anyone - http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/12/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths

Good points. My current 7DMk1 + 100-400 IS combo works "perfectly" and so I would have hoped a like for like replacement of the 7DMkI with the 7DMkII would be seemless, without having to mess about. Obviously not.

cheers, alan
 

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
Good points. My current 7DMk1 + 100-400 IS combo works "perfectly" and so I would have hoped a like for like replacement of the 7DMkI with the 7DMkII would be seemless, without having to mess about. Obviously not.

cheers, alan
You may well find that your 100-400 is also perfect on a 7D2 (or any other Camera) without having to do a thing. A lot of folk do not bother with AFMA if they are happy with the results they are getting while others tend to AFMA all their kit regardless.
 

Pigeon_Pete

Well-known member
Well, it looks as if I was wrong there and the reason I lost focus on the easy rough-legged buzzard wasn't user error after all - just the camera being erratic, sometimes giving good results and sometimes poor ones.

At last I've been able to field test it in good light conditions over an extended period. Unfortunately it was on a big trip.

I'm just back from India yesterday and to say I was frustrated understates the position by an order of magnitude. The camera performed brilliantly when it felt like it, but at other times it just did what the hell it felt like. Sometimes focussing, sometimes not, usually when there was a good bird in the focus spot.

I took my 1.4X converter that Santa brought me and found that even with full micro-adjustment it was still rear-focussing with the extender fitted.

And the camera usually forgets that I've enabled micro-adjustment and starts up with micro-adjustment disabled more often than not.

I've sent an email off to WEX this morning asking for a replacement.

The eagle photos below are a burst of two shots, full frame and unedited (Jpg copies of the RAW from the camera). The focus point was on the eagle, Servo AI. Two shot burst - both soft.

Fortunately I have others that were in focus, but I lost some shots of good birds on this trip through unpredictable performance.

The shrike is also a burst of two - first one in focus, second one a seventh of a second later, not. Again, these are full-frame and unedited.
AI Servo mode is for panning and should never be used for static shots as the camera expects movement which is probably why the burst of shots isn't in focus consistently, they rarely are on static subjects in AI SERVO mode. You can configure the AE lock button to switch immediately from AI servo mode to AF one shot for when a bird lands and there is no movement. My 7D MK 2 was front focusing +6 as are quite a few.
 

hampers

Hampers
Good points. My current 7DMk1 + 100-400 IS combo works "perfectly" and so I would have hoped a like for like replacement of the 7DMkI with the 7DMkII would be seemless, without having to mess about. Obviously not.

cheers, alan

My 7D2 and 400 f5.6, plus 1.4 when I use it, has been completely seamless. No need whatsoever for AFMA. I have found the images from my combinations to be sharper than I expected, perhaps I should have AFMA my previous set up.
No doubt BW sadly has a serious issue with his body, mine is perfect. I am sure that the majority are ok, we just don't hear the positive experiences as much as the problems. It is great that when this forum is used properly, like this thread, that people can offer help and share experiences. Shame that BW couldn't identify his problem earlier, I couldn't use mine for weeks after I got it due to the weather so have every sympathy on that front. Hope he gets it resolved successfully. I had an issue with something from WEX and they bent over backwards to help, hope they do so for BW.

Phil
 

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
AI Servo mode is for panning and should never be used for static shots as the camera .
I do not agree with this - I have been using AI servo mode (with back button focusing of course) all the time for birds and never had a problem with sharpness. Many of the very best bird photographers also advocate this method including the likes of Art Morris.
I have tried numerous test of static subjects using both one shot and AI servo and never found one iota of difference as to AF accuracy or sharpness.
 

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
AI Servo mode is for panning and should never be used for static shots as the camera expects movement which is probably why the burst of shots isn't in focus consistently, they rarely are on static subjects in AI SERVO mode. You can configure the AE lock button to switch immediately from AI servo mode to AF one shot for when a bird lands and there is no movement. My 7D MK 2 was front focusing +6 as are quite a few.

I photograph birds, not buildings. Show me a static bird and I'll show you a stuffed one.
 

Dave Williams

Well-known member
My 7D2 and 400 f5.6, plus 1.4 when I use it, has been completely seamless. No need whatsoever for AFMA. I have found the images from my combinations to be sharper than I expected, perhaps I should have AFMA my previous set up.
No doubt BW sadly has a serious issue with his body, mine is perfect. I am sure that the majority are ok, we just don't hear the positive experiences as much as the problems. It is great that when this forum is used properly, like this thread, that people can offer help and share experiences. Shame that BW couldn't identify his problem earlier, I couldn't use mine for weeks after I got it due to the weather so have every sympathy on that front. Hope he gets it resolved successfully. I had an issue with something from WEX and they bent over backwards to help, hope they do so for BW.

Phil

Couldn't agree more Phil. I guess on has to be careful with one's phraseology though otherwise there is always someone ready to jump in with their expert opinion.
Glad you are finding the 7D11 is working perfectly. I'm still thinking about it !
I find that on my FX bodies I am now using the 500mmf4 as replacement for my 300mm f2.8, one reason I am pleased I chose the 500mm over the 600 as it's very hand holdable. I do miss the reach I used to have with a 600mm and 1.3 crop body though. The other reason that's becoming more apparent is the available focus points. The f2.8 lenses have more dual cross point AF points available than the f4, and they becomes less when you stick a TC on. I'm beginning to think the 7D2 on my 300mm f2.8 would take me back to when I was using a Nikon D300s and 300mm f2.8. It was pretty deadly for BIF. The 7D2 should be better!
 

Pigeon_Pete

Well-known member
I photograph birds, not buildings. Show me a static bird and I'll show you a stuffed one.

Sorry, only trying to help, but you should never use AI Servo for birds which are perched, otherwise you will get some out of focus images, even on a 1DX paired with a 300mm f2.8 MkII . I would class a large bird on a perch as static as far as which mode you should select on the camera.
 

hampers

Hampers
Dave
I'm beginning to think the 7D2 on my 300mm f2.8 would take me back to when I was using a Nikon D300s and 300mm f2.8. It was pretty deadly for BIF. The 7D2 should be better!

Would be superb I reckon, especially with price can get 7D2 for now. Gambia images stunning, great blog. May be down that way Mon/Tue, weather dependant, will let you know.

Phil
 

Barred Wobbler

Well-known member
Sorry, only trying to help, but you should never use AI Servo for birds which are perched, otherwise you will get some out of focus images, even on a 1DX paired with a 300mm f2.8 MkII . I would class a large bird on a perch as static as far as which mode you should select on the camera.

Few birds are large, and fewer are static. Even a perched bird is constantly turning its head and adjusting its position.

Try getting one of these to sit still on a perch (7DII, 400mm F5.6L, AI Servo, single spot focus, ISO 8000, 1/1250 sec F5.6 hand held).
 

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GYRob

Well-known member
I like to edged my bets ,im always in AI SERVO and will take shots of a perch bird like that if one just turns up however I will then go to one shot and spot focus to take a few more Then I go back to AI servo just it case said bird takes off
This way I have hopefully got the best I can and am ready for the take off /fly away .

Rob.
 

Pigeon_Pete

Well-known member
Few birds are large, and fewer are static. Even a perched bird is constantly turning its head and adjusting its position.

Try getting one of these to sit still on a perch (7DII, 400mm F5.6L, AI Servo, single spot focus, ISO 8000, 1/1250 sec F5.6 hand held).
Yes indeed difficult little birds to pin down these. Out of the three modes available , AF, AI FOCUS,and AI SERVO, I would use AI FOCUS which would detect and track movement. But I am no expert :) each to their own I guess....
 

bob freeman

Well-known member
I am still having endless af issues with my 7d2 and thats after having it into the local Canon sevice centre twice.
Af-on button on the rear is now stuck in zone af and will not change to single point or any other af mode for that matter , even after taking Zone af out of the menu it still shows on back button focus.
Sometimes the camera will not af at all and i have found that i have to switch it to Auto mode and press the shutter halfway to wake up the af then back to TV or AV mode which i use and it seems to af ok untill next time it is powered off.
Body now has about 10k clicks on it and i can say i maybe have a handfull of keepers if that.
I have been borrowing a shipmates 70d the last couple of weekends and have been getting some very nice results with it alongside the 100-400 mkii so at least i know the lens is working fine.
Tried the MA twice with same lens and 7d2 but been getting different results both times.
I will attach a shot i took today of a Kingfisher on the mooring rope,you can see the focus point on the bird and in the foreground the sharp focus on the mooring rope which is not even in the af grid.
All but given up on my Lemon which is such a shame as all other aspects of the body are great but i suppose with naff image quality its all pretty irrelevant.
 

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Pigeon_Pete

Well-known member
Sorry to hear that Bob, I hope Canon "man up" and come clean about these issues ....

It seems more than just a firmware update is needed to fix these things, good luck ;)
 
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