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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Björn Bergenholtz" data-source="post: 4028020" data-attributes="member: 113430">Don Carmiol, born 1807/17 ... ?And what about the Birth year of "Don Carmiol" (Senior) ...Was he, or wasn't he, born in early January ("1st?", or 2nd of January) in "1807", as earlier claimed (repeatedly, all over), or was he instead, really, as the "new" claim ("beyond any reasonable doubt", as Rafael put it in post #34); born on the "2 Jan 1817" ... ?!?"1817" certainly doesn't match an age of 78 años/78 years in 1885 (as claimed by Carmiol Calvo, back in 1973).Another thing that still bugs me, that slightly disturbs the peace of my mind, is the words by my fellow countryman Carl Bovallius (1849–1907), who, when in his early 30's, had met Don Carmiol, several times in 1882; would he really have called him "an old German collector and trader" if Carmiol was born in "1817"? If so Don Carmiol would have been in his mid-60s when they met. An age of 75 would, in my mind, be a better match for this description. This said, of course, with the knowledge that the Tropics can age any European considerably, ...Also consider (even if it's no proof what-so-ever, in neither way), that; in most cases Men tend to marry somewhat younger Women, more seldom the other way around, this in regard to his First wife Auguste (not Augusta?) née Prössel (allegedly born in "1811").Yet another thing that talks against Julius/Julián (Senior) being born in "1917" is the/a now added first-born Son "Theodor Ernst Proessel" [without the Carnigohl part/namel!], recently added to the FamilySearch site/page (<a href="https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/MV93-35V/christian-friedrich-julius-carnigohl-grassnick-1817-1895" target="_blank">here</a>, or see attached JPG, a guy who wasn't present when we last looked back in 2019), but now listed as born in "1833" (without death year, indicating that he might have died at an early age, or not?). Even if mother Augusta/e was born in "1811", she would have been about 22 in 1833 (a fairly likely age for a first motherhood, in those days), but this Kid would have made Julius (the future Don Julián) an exceptionally young father (if so only 16 years old)! Not unheard of, but ...?  Also noteworthy is that Julius and his wife didn't marry until three years later (in July 1836). Would an illegitimate child truly have been accepted for such a long time (in contemporary Germany)?Also consider the possibility; that if this newly added 'Theodor Ernst Proessel', truly was a First-born Son of Don Julius/Julian and Augusta/e (and not simply a miss-placed younger Brother of the latter), if born in in "1833" he would have been old enough to stand on his own feet in 1853, when the Family left for South America (maybe he simply didn't join them on their transatlantic trip). Who knows?To me, the only (strong) thing that talks in favour of the later Birth year ("1817") of/for Don Julius/Julian (Senior), would be the age of his alleged Parents; Father Johan Friedrich Wilhelm Carnigohl (claimed to have born in "1790," no death year) and his Mother (Hanna/Johanna/Johanne Charlotte/Charlotta), apparently born in "1794" (no death year), but how sure are we, as in dead-certain, that their Birth years are fully correct? Also see the second attached JPG (for Julius/Julián's 'Parents'). Wouldn't it be odd with two cases of such extremely young Parenthoods?On the other hand, I feel less and less inclined to believe anything told on that certain FamilySearch page. Sigh.Time to reconsider? Or not?This far I don't dare to claim more than; (Christian Friedrich) Julius Carnigohl/Julián Carmiol (1807/1817? –1885).At this point I´m (again) very close to deleting large parts of Don Carmiol's story from my MS. As "his" Vireo isn't really necessary to include (not in my text, about Swedish Common/Vernacular names), I could easily erase Don Carmiol all together, but I would like to keep him there, simply to give the entry for his Son "Fransisco" some context, body and back-bone, with additional (fun-to-know) facts. It's always a bit sad if, or when, one has to delete such parts (i.e. it's never nice to 'Kill your Darlings').Has anyone checked or looked for a, or any, actual Birth record/s for that certain Date? In 1807? Paul? Martin? You both seem to know your ways in and around those old German Archives, just to be on the safe side, that we haven't been looking at an accidental occurrence of a Julius Carnigohl namesake? Even if highly unlikely, with such a (as I understand it) rare Surname.It (sure) would be nice to put an end to this lengthy (and somewhat tedious) thread ... :scribe:BjörnPS. For what it's worth (as earlier pointed out/at); another (amateur) Genealogy entry (this time from/on/in MyHeritage), for mother Augusta (even if there with her Maiden name written as "Procel"!) is to be seen <a href="https://www.myheritage.se/names/augusta_procel" target="_blank">here</a>, ... with her husband "Julian" (again) mentioned, as born "1 januari 1807", in Berlin, Germany. --</blockquote>

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