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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Carrion Crow or Raven please - Horwich Moor, Greater Manchester UK (1 Viewer)

So with all the differing opinions then is this bird unidentifiable?

A guess, or an opinion, no matter how well argued, is surely just that (?)

Or do we go by percentages?
 
Without certainty, I think this is a carrion crow. It's certainly not an adult raven. My reasons are: on adult ravens the horizontal hairs on the upper mandible tend to extend around 2/3rds of the way down the bill rather than less than half [here: viz Macauley images]. The bill of an adult raven is deeper and more parallel sided, especially the lower mandible [most obvious curve is around last third of upper mandible]. The bill here appears quite "delicate" [to me] and both mandibles converge smoothly to a point. I see little evidence of the raven's "beard" here. Finally, Macauley images suggest carrion crow wings often fall short of the tail tip, whereas raven's meet or exceed it. As far as I can tell, the OP image matches the first pattern.

These 2 can be really difficult without a clear size comparison as here. The posts above demonstrate this... ...Happy to be proved wrong...
This is what happens when you reply late at night (as I always do). I was responding to the wrong picture !

... For the first pics, I think it's probably a raven. My bill comments above stand but interpreted the other way around (i.e. in favour)

Comments about the wing length don't apply as we can't actually see this feature.
 
I appreciate all the answers to my query. Such a repository of expertise and knowledge is priceless. I guess I shall have to put it down as "not identfied conclusively". One thought that occurred to me is that I was able to photograph it from the base of a mast, and it was comfortable for time with my presence. I always thought that Ravens are much shyer than Crows. However any comments on this too would be appreciated.
 
I appreciate all the answers to my query. Such a repository of expertise and knowledge is priceless. I guess I shall have to put it down as "not identfied conclusively". One thought that occurred to me is that I was able to photograph it from the base of a mast, and it was comfortable for time with my presence. I always thought that Ravens are much shyer than Crows. However any comments on this too would be appreciated.
That was going to be my next observation in favour of Carrion Crow. Nice to get an observer who is thinking for himself - nice one Earnest Lad!

RB
 
If it helps , Ravens appear to have nested again in Wigan, 5-6 mile from Horwich. Maybe a good opportunity for photography & comparison.
Yes that helps. Thank you. I was wondering if the nesting locality is widely known. I understand they have bred at Bolton Town Hall in the past. Also on a telephone mast or something in Altrincham
 
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