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Caterpillar, Berks (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter paul47
- Start date
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
It's one of the 'Geometres' but they are many and larval colour variations within a species are often numerous. If you still have it breed it out to the adult form.
Harry
Wandered Scot
Well-known member
Hello Paul,
I think it is Tawny wave. I've checked through my photos of Scopula spp., checked against available photos on De.lept Forum, and then kimmo's site and there I found a darker form of Tawny wave, but it is the only caterpillar with the matching underlying markings (see attached photo).
My certainty? From experince of variations, I would go 80%+, and would use this one as the start point to prove/disprove the next one I found. The 20% missing certainty is that the other S.rubiginata photo's show a darker face pattern, but if your one was a lighter version, this may well be missing anyway. All other dots, spots, & stripes are where and how they should be, but there are alot of missing Scopula spp. examples so maybe there is one more very similar, but it would have to be extremely similar.
Cheers Jim
I think it is Tawny wave. I've checked through my photos of Scopula spp., checked against available photos on De.lept Forum, and then kimmo's site and there I found a darker form of Tawny wave, but it is the only caterpillar with the matching underlying markings (see attached photo).
My certainty? From experince of variations, I would go 80%+, and would use this one as the start point to prove/disprove the next one I found. The 20% missing certainty is that the other S.rubiginata photo's show a darker face pattern, but if your one was a lighter version, this may well be missing anyway. All other dots, spots, & stripes are where and how they should be, but there are alot of missing Scopula spp. examples so maybe there is one more very similar, but it would have to be extremely similar.
Cheers Jim
Attachments
Paul Chapman
Well-known member
Jim
I don't challenge your analysis but as a result, you have come up with a very rare moth for the location surely?
All the best
I don't challenge your analysis but as a result, you have come up with a very rare moth for the location surely?
All the best
Last edited:
Wandered Scot
Well-known member
Okay Paul,
I don't know your potential options for your area, if it is rare then it is unlikely and we can discard it.
The best option is actually Small Blood-vien (Scopula imitaria) very variable forms including the patches or in this case in particular it has the patches on the sub dorsal like your's. Porter says that it hibernates in winter, then feeds on. There is a photo on a french web page very similar to yours. Yesterday I had discarded it as I had read Porter to the point he said hibernates and stopped without reading further!! So my mistake for not reading further.! :brains:
Harry is absolutely correct about variation, and the photo attached is Cream Wave from the same eggs from one female in May 2005 (photo Sept 2005), this shows the dark and light variables of one species even between 'siblings'. This is another that hibernates, and I find it particularly interesting as I never find it as an over wintering caterpillar in March when I start my surveys as soon as the snow is gone, but I will find other Waves that don't hibernate as Porter puts it.
It is a pity you could not have hatched this one, as you have a really good set of reference photos that could help others (including myself) who are trying to patch the gaps together on the knowledge about caterpillars, and that knowledge includes 'do they always hibernate' as was maybe written by someone in 1850 from two or three observations!?
Anyways, an interesting find, and you can maybe now narrow it down a bit more.
Cheers B
Jim
I don't know your potential options for your area, if it is rare then it is unlikely and we can discard it.
The best option is actually Small Blood-vien (Scopula imitaria) very variable forms including the patches or in this case in particular it has the patches on the sub dorsal like your's. Porter says that it hibernates in winter, then feeds on. There is a photo on a french web page very similar to yours. Yesterday I had discarded it as I had read Porter to the point he said hibernates and stopped without reading further!! So my mistake for not reading further.! :brains:
Harry is absolutely correct about variation, and the photo attached is Cream Wave from the same eggs from one female in May 2005 (photo Sept 2005), this shows the dark and light variables of one species even between 'siblings'. This is another that hibernates, and I find it particularly interesting as I never find it as an over wintering caterpillar in March when I start my surveys as soon as the snow is gone, but I will find other Waves that don't hibernate as Porter puts it.
It is a pity you could not have hatched this one, as you have a really good set of reference photos that could help others (including myself) who are trying to patch the gaps together on the knowledge about caterpillars, and that knowledge includes 'do they always hibernate' as was maybe written by someone in 1850 from two or three observations!?
Anyways, an interesting find, and you can maybe now narrow it down a bit more.
Cheers B
Jim
Attachments
Last edited:
Wandered Scot
Well-known member
Sorry forgot to attach said 'french connection'.
http://www.lepinet.fr/especes/nation/lep/index.php?id=32490&e=p
http://www.lepinet.fr/especes/nation/lep/index.php?id=32490&e=p
