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Cheshire And Wirral Birding: Hills, Lowland and Coast (1 Viewer)

cheshirebirder

Well-known member
So what if an egyptian goose flew up the middle of the Dee.... could you only count it as Cheshire once it was out in the open sea?

Safe to count,I'd say. The border between Cheshire/Wirral and Wales runs up the middle, anyway. Main point about looking out to sea, is that there isn't a mapped end to the county (at least as far as I know !). Where does the Cheshire bird report define "our territory "?
 

Cheshire Birder

Well-known member
This afternoon there was an Egyptian Goose tantalisingly close to the Cheshire border, just across the Bollin at Dunham Massey in Gtr Manchester. I have a friend who needs it for a Cheshire tick.

Question for Cheshire Birder : would you count the bird as a Cheshire tick if viewed from Cheshire – while the bird was in the air over Greater Manchester ‘ airspace ‘ and not on the ground ? Just curious

Technically no it shouldnt be counted unless it flew into cheshire but some may wish to ;). Estuaries are a whole different ball game tho

CB
 
cheshire ticks

: would you count the bird as a Cheshire tick if viewed from Cheshire – while the bird was in the air over Greater Manchester ‘ airspace ‘ and not on the ground ? Just curious

I have the same problem with the B.W. Prat.-although viewed from Cheshire it was actually in Flints. and even when it flew off remained on the Welsh side. To tick or not is the question-any other opinions out there.
cheers
BR[/QUOTE]
 

jogresh

Registered nutjob
No sign of the Egyptian Goose this morning at Dunham Massey but it's place appeared to have been mysteriously taken by a Barnacle Goose amongst the Canada's.

Also several large skein of Pink Feet's heading North West this morning.

It was back there mid afternoon with the Barnacle. Two Green Sands nearby in a flooded field.
 
what l was trying to do in the previous post was reply to brybo,l also saw the black winged pratincole from the hide at bmw,for me its a cheshire tick ,as l was stood in cheshire. l:ve noticed it:s down as Jane Turners 300 cheshire bird (must be the highest total ??) So others have also ticked this bird,in other words its up to you which way you go with this bird.
 

Bananafishbones

Incoherently Rambling .....
5 tightly packed skiens of Pink Feet over Poynton this morning heading SE, I would guess 300+ birds

In the garden the arrival of the Lssr Redpolls have begun, only 3s and 4s at the mo, but sure to rise to the 40s soon
 
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Jane Turner

Well-known member
what l was trying to do in the previous post was reply to brybo,l also saw the black winged pratincole from the hide at bmw,for me its a cheshire tick ,as l was stood in cheshire. l:ve noticed it:s down as Jane Turners 300 cheshire bird (must be the highest total ??) So others have also ticked this bird,in other words its up to you which way you go with this bird.


Barry Barnacle has seen over 300 on Wirral. BW Prat is on my list, its was possibly over Cheshire when I saw it from beside Haddon's Well. It was definitely a long way into Wales (and to add to that, unidentifiable) when I saw it disappearing from the way up to the visitor centre at BMW. I was comprehensively in Cheshire on both occasions.

Egyptian goose isn't on my Cheshire list, for entirely different reasons (Escapes rather than self-sustaining populations) Likewise Ruddy Shelduck
 

John Barber

Well-known member
Egyptian goose isn't on my Cheshire list, for entirely different reasons (Escapes rather than self-sustaining populations) Likewise Ruddy Shelduck


Jane, I don’t see why you shouldn’t put Egyptian Goose on your Cheshire list. I’ve seen flocks of two dozen birds or more in Norfolk recently ( presumably self sustaining )

With regular migration of geese from East to West and visa versa, I would have thought it’s not impossible for odd birds to tag along and drop into places they don’t yet regularly frequent.
 

Gwahir

Active member
Jane, I don’t see why you shouldn’t put Egyptian Goose on your Cheshire list. I’ve seen flocks of two dozen birds or more in Norfolk recently ( presumably self sustaining )

With regular migration of geese from East to West and visa versa, I would have thought it’s not impossible for odd birds to tag along and drop into places they don’t yet regularly frequent.

I think pretty much all the Egyptian geese present in the uk are regarded as feral and are probably offspring from the introduced birds from the 18th century.

The probability of a wild bird is going to be really low and proving it would be another matter altogether.

Still good for your list though John. ;-)
 

Cheshire Birder

Well-known member
Barry Barnacle has seen over 300 on Wirral. BW Prat is on my list, its was possibly over Cheshire when I saw it from beside Haddon's Well. It was definitely a long way into Wales (and to add to that, unidentifiable) when I saw it disappearing from the way up to the visitor centre at BMW. I was comprehensively in Cheshire on both occasions.

Egyptian goose isn't on my Cheshire list, for entirely different reasons (Escapes rather than self-sustaining populations) Likewise Ruddy Shelduck

Apart from the Goose and Shelduck, do you exclude any other species from your list? Ring-necked Parakeet perhaps?

I thought the Ruddy Shelduck influx a few years back coincided with a genuine influx of wild birds into Holland and so those records at least should have been tickable.

CB
 

Jane Turner

Well-known member
Apart from the Goose and Shelduck, do you exclude any other species from your list? Ring-necked Parakeet perhaps?

CB

RN Parakeet, Common Pheasant, Red-legged Partridge, Mandarin, Ruddy Duck, Canada Goose and Little Owl are on my spreadsheet list (which comes in at 303)


Lady A's Pheasant, Ruddy Shelduck and Egyptian Goose didn't get on it, though the Lady A in the garden was a bit of a shock!
 

deeestuary

Dee Estuary
Apart from the Goose and Shelduck, do you exclude any other species from your list? Ring-necked Parakeet perhaps?

I thought the Ruddy Shelduck influx a few years back coincided with a genuine influx of wild birds into Holland and so those records at least should have been tickable.

CB

Not sure why anybody should regard Egyptian Geese as just escapes. The WeBS count for the UK was 724 in 2010/11, there is an increasing and self-sustaining population - many are in East Anglia but to quote "strong evidence of the steady expansion taking place away from the East Anglia core. The above average monthly index value for September infers high breeding success of the increasing population, presumably aiding the range expansion". On top of this is the large population in Holland of 35,000 - kept in check by much shooting - surely some of these birds also make their way to the UK. So strong evidence that the increasing number of Egyptian Geese we are seeing in C&W are from the increasing feral population.

Ruddy Shelducks are a bit more problematic. As for the influx mentioned above - this was in 1994. It does seem highly likely that there was an influx of wild birds west across Europe that year, and probable that some of these birds made their way to the UK, maybe even to Cheshire where 12 were counted in one day with many other records. However, BOU were not convinced that they were not just birds from the NW Europe feral population. So if they were not wild they were feral - i.e. from a self-sustaining population. Currently the size of this feral population is disputed, but appears not to be particularly big. But there is a regular moulting flock on the Wadenzee every summer several hundred strong, as well as larger numbers moulting in Switzerland - so these birds must be breeding somewhere in Europe. Apart from the occasional influx it does seem that numbers in the UK are small and that the population in this country is not self-sustaining. On the other hand their regular appearance, especially with the late summer peak, seems to indicate a non-escape origin for at least some. Certainly David Cabot in 'Wildfowl - New Naturalist' is of the opinion that 'these feral populations (in NW Europe) together with escapes from wildfowl collections, are almost certainly the source of all birds seen in Britain and Ireland today'. So IMO there is at least a good chance that any Ruddy Shelducks seen in C&W originate from the NW Europe feral population. Wild birds are possible but would be very rare vagrants and impossible to prove without ringing, or capture and isotope analysis.
 
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deeestuary

Dee Estuary
Red-crested Pochard is another species that seems to cause confusion regarding it's status as escapes, feral birds or wild birds.

Again a dip into the latest WeBS report makes for interesting reading.
The origin of the ancestors of many of the birds in the UK may well be escapes but there is now a healthy and expanding feral population with the 470 counted in the Nov 2010 WeBs count likely to be a significant under-estimate. Large numbers breed in the Cotswolds but there are also many in the East Midlands - surely just a short hop for any birds under going post breeding dispersal.
But the following I find particularly interesting "the species has shown a change in winter distribution in recent decades, involving a shift in range core from the western mediterranean to the region north of the Alps..... increasing the likelihood of wild birds reaching Britain." They also mention a rapid increase of numbers in Switzerland and "Red-crested Pochard continues to steadily expand in terms of both population and range in England". So any RCP here in C&W is highly likely to be feral (rather than an escape) with at least a realistic chance that it is a true wild bird.
 
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Cheshire Birder

Well-known member
RN Parakeet, Common Pheasant, Red-legged Partridge, Mandarin, Ruddy Duck, Canada Goose and Little Owl are on my spreadsheet list (which comes in at 303)

I'm curious to why RNParakeet is on your list. You exclude Egyptian Goose and Ruddy Shelduck due to them being escapes rather than self-sustaining populations. So far as i can remember Cheshire has never had any self-sustaining population of Parakeets even though there is a small feral/introduced population just over the border in Gtr Manchester.

CB
 

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