China Birding Notes (1 Viewer)

[jonathmartinez]

Hi Craig,

Well you seems convince about what were these birds.
I just would said that I would have a more conservative approch to clinch the ID of your birds, with at least pictures of the adults as good as the one of your juvenil, or vocalisations of one of the adults as suggest Sid.
To me these birds looks to young to be allready fledged and I guess that the adults should have been around.

I've learnt also to get a very caution approch in term of phylloscopus distribution mentionned in book even HBW are of very good quality, I doubt they've send a team to cover the entire China to ensure their ditribution map for every species is correct, then they've very likely rely on existing litterature on wich the recent from Professor Marten is probably by far the best.
I mentionned these occinensis sighting in Hunan because it is very far away from any distribution found in the litterature, I also found the first occinensis sighting for Guangxi province this winter, based on good view and call recording, just to say that lot needs to be done concerning pylloscopus distribution and work as you're doing is of great value, especially by visiting under covered places.
But frankly, with the current knowledge available, I would not ID any birds based on juvenil plumage, habitat and supposition concerning distribution, and would likely prefer a good song or call recording depending on species. Then it is just my opinion , but I guess that if you're posting your sightings in this forum, it is to get opinion of others whatever they match or not your analysis.

All the best,

Jonathan

 

[thrush]

... lot needs to be done concerning pylloscopus distribution and work as you're doing is of great value, especially by visiting under covered places. ...

Thank you for appreciating my work, Jonathan. Brian, Jan-Erik, and I chose W Gansu exactly because we sensed it was under-birded and because we thought it held potential. We were right on both counts. It wasn't easy getting to W Gansu; foreigners are eyed suspiciously, and foreigners are effectively banned from Yanchiwan National Nature Reserve (Yánchíwān Guójiājí Zìrán Bǎohùqū [盐池湾国家级自然保护区]). Even though we were barred from the Reserve, we still found many good birds on the periphery.

I also salute you for your records of P. occisinensis in Hunan and Guangxi.

You and I have a difference of degree, not kind. I too am cautious about ID-ing leaf warblers without seeing an adult and hearing a vocalization. And I fully concur, birders also (as you have been discovering) have much to learn about the ranges of the leaf warblers in China.

However, when it comes to habitat, our grasp of leaf warblers' predilections is much stronger. As you pointed out, your P. occisinensis surprised you by showing up in Hunan and Guangxi, but they did not surprise you in their habitat choice. In each case, you only had one surprise to deal with: range.

If the birds I found in W Gansu were P. occisinensis or P. subaffinis, then we'd be dealing with two surprises: range and habitat. Those two species are very unlikely to have bred in a barren, rocky, hilly desert. But P. griseolus, which according to our imperfect but broadly reliable information is the species most likely to be encountered in W Gansu, is perfectly at home breeding in those badlands.

I simply think it too unlikely that anything but P. griseolus would be breeding in far W Gansu in habitat perfectly matching its well-known preferences and not at all matching those of its lookalike congeners.

 

[china guy]

Hi Craig - I'd also like to echo Jonathan's praise over your exploration of seldom birded areas. The fact that China holds so much "unbirded" territory adds a truly exciting potential for those trips that decide to leave the normal birding routes.

I was interested in your last post when you wrote -

I simply think it too unlikely that anything but P. griseolus would be breeding in far W Gansu in habitat perfectly matching its well-known preferences and not at all matching those of its lookalike congeners

Unless you're 100% confident, through plumage characteristics, that the Juvenile birds you photographed conclusively indicate Sulphur-bellied, then when making an ID based on info found in HBW, or other reference, you should choose the word 'impossible' over "too unlikely." I know this a pedantic play on words - but a conclusive field ID still normally relies on skills of seeing (photographs included) body features or hearing something that is unique to a species.

What I will say is that you have two very interesting birds, which have just been dismissed by others as Alpine, found in the kind of habitat and area that may hold Sulphur-bellied - and that you've now pointed out a potential species to birders who get to visit this area.

Out of interest, the other two birders who got to see the birds - have they now agreed on the Sulphur-bellied ID?

 

[thrush]

Hi Craig - I'd also like to echo Jonathan's praise over your exploration of seldom birded areas. The fact that China holds so much "unbirded" territory adds a truly exciting potential for those trips that decide to leave the normal birding routes.

Thanks, Sid. My partners, Brian and Jan-Erik, as well as you, will surely agree with me when I say that getting into some of those seldom-birded areas in W China is a real trial. Because Jan-Erik and Brian are such good men, and because we shared the goal of daring to go where other birders haven't gone, we gelled as a team, and we got through the dust and the heat and the wind and the snow and the long drives and the checkpoints and the travel bans without going at each other's throats!

We Google-mapped the Subei area, by the way; none of us had ever heard of a single report coming out of that area. We simply looked at the map and knew the western Qilian Mtns. had to be good. And they were.

... I know this a pedantic play on words ...

Yeah, you're right, it is a pedantic play on words. My position is clear and was expressed a few posts ago: "My case may be circumstantial, but it's strong enough to convict. I am certain, and you should be too, that the birds I found in W Gansu are guilty of being Sulphur-bellied Warblers." Especially as known sites for Sulphur-bellied Warbler are so few, I would without hesitation recommend our spot in W Gansu to anyone hoping to see a Sulphur-bellied Warbler.

... a conclusive field ID still relies on skills of seeing (photographs included) or hearing something that is unique to a species ...

I think the photos I originally posted, though of juveniles, are photos of birds showing the typical features of adult P. griseolus. I think that if you took away any verbal or photographic indication of the habitat and simply showed the photos of the birds to leaf-warbler experts, a great many of them would say, with alacrity, that the photos are of P. griseolus. To give just one example, the photos I posted show supercilia that are already differently colored than the throat, a mark of P. griseolus and in contrast to P. occisinensis, in which the anterior half of the supercilium is the same color as the throat (no such color difference is evident even in the dusky-colored P. occisinensis juvenile that you pointed out to me.) What's more, my eyes saw "unique-to-species" behavior, such as a strong terrestrial bias. Furthermore, having lived on the Chinese coast here in Shanghai, I've seen plenty of birds on migration; in W Gansu, what my eyes saw were birds that clearly weren't "lost" or simply "passing through" the boulder-studded, steep desert ravine, but were at home there, foraging, begging, moving confidently from rock to rock.

... the other two birders who got to see the birds - have they now agreed on the Sulphur-bellied ID?

I credit Brian with being the first to say that he thought our W Gansu leaf warblers were unlike any leaf warbler we'd seen on the trip. Brian's observation, plus his insistence that in the W Qilian Mtns. all bets are off because no one's really sure what lives there, kept my mind open to unexpected possibilities. When I finally stumbled on the description of Sulphur-bellied while re-reading my draft of Phylloscopus for my photo field guide, I knew that my correspondents and I had probably overlooked a very strong candidate. Jan-Erik has been digging through his books, trying to verify or disprove what I've been claiming here. I'm not certain where Brian and Jan-Erik are standing now but will alert them to this post and invite them to weigh in.

 

[A. platyrhynchos]

Hello, and thanks for an interesting discussion!
However, I am surprised. I see absolutely nothing that talks in favor of anything else than P. griseolus. Yes, in many species juveniles can be tricky, but not when they show the typical features of adults…
Cheers,
Daniel

 

[lewis20126]

All

I've been looking at these pictures for a few days now and lots of photos of the various candidates.I think perhaps the most substantive "real" feature on these birds is likely to be the greyish-white fringes to the secondaries. I would expect these to be yellowish on this age in the "Tickell's group". For me that would suggest these are Sulphur-bellieds. That said I could prefer to see the adults and to have seen them in the field to be sure (that call and rock-loving behaviour is distinctive!) - my most recent experience is of Tickell's in treeline scrub in Kashmir this summer but this didn't include juevniles - I haven't seen Sulpur-bellied for many years.

cheers, alan

 

[A. platyrhynchos]

Perhaps I should clearify my statement a little. Juvenile Phylloscopus often show a slightly different body coloration (quite obvious in e.g. Willow Warbler). The pictured birds are more yellow below than an adult Sulphur-bellied, but show typical pattern of that species in face (dark ear coverts being a distinctive feature against e.g. Alpine) and upperparts. As remiges won't be molted until next complete molt, the coloration of fringes there is as valid as in adults.
/Daniel

 

[lewis20126]

As remiges won't be molted until next complete molt, the coloration of fringes there is as valid as in adults.
/Daniel

Indeed my point (in repsect of "real" features) although I did not explain as you have done - thanks.

cheers, alan

 

[china guy]

I think perhaps the most substantive "real" feature on these birds is likely to be the greyish-white fringes to the secondaries

Looking through pics of the "various suspects" - all adult birds - this feature does look good, and seems to show up consistently well in photos. With Alpine Leaf, in the only pic I could find of a young bird, the dark ear coverts were also a Juv plumage feature

 

[thrush]

Looking through pics of the "various suspects" - ...

People are paying attention to the fringes of the flight feathers--good.

But I think we can go further. Let's look at the problem this way.

1. First, consider these two passages (heretofore not considered) from HBW 11. Regarding Tickell's/Alpine: "Juvenile is as adult [emphasis mine], but upperparts warmer brown, and underparts variable in yellow tones, some dingy greyish-yellow." Regarding Sulphur-bellied: "Juvenile is very similar to adult [emphasis mine], but slightly warmer brown on upperparts, and dull yellow below, with heavier and more extensive buff on breast."

2. In light of the paucity of photos of juvenile Alpine/Tickell's and juvenile Sulphur-bellieds on Oriental Bird Images, let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the juveniles I photographed could be either P. occisinensis or P. griseolus.

3. Next, view as many photos or illustrations as possible of adult P. occisinensis and adult P. griseolus. Read up on those species. Try to get as deep an impression as possible.

4. Look again at the photos I took of the juveniles. Those juveniles do not show all the features of either P. occisinensis or P. griseolus. But which way are they trending? Remember, HBW 11 is saying that the juvenile of each species "is as" or "is very similar to" the adult. So do my birds most resemble an adult P. griseolus or an adult P. occisinensis?

They clearly most resemble an adult P. griseolus. Consider:

REMIGES

Grey-fringed in my juveniles, as in adult P. griseolus.

SUPERCILIUM

What sets apart the supercilium of P. griseolus from that of P. occisinensis is (1) its coloring (in P. griseolus, sulfur-yellow anteriorly, yellow posteriorly; in P. occisinensis, what I call "hot-dog-mustard" yellow anteriorly, whitish posteriorly) and (2) its contrast with the color of the plumage on the throat (brighter than throat plumage in P. griseolus, neither brighter nor darker [no contrast] in P. occisinensis). In the photos of my juveniles, the supercilium is already assuming that sulfur-yellow-to-yellow pattern (see esp. Panel 1 of my four-panel photo), and there is already a noticeable contrast in its hues and the hue of the throat.

UPPERPARTS

Cold brown in my juveniles, as in P. griseolus. No greenish tint at all.

UNDERPARTS

No hint of lemon anywhere.

 

[bfoutch]

This description of P. griseolus from 'Birds of Kazakhstan' contains some information about juvenile plumage:
http://www.birds.kz/species.php?species=502&l=en

Seems my previous post got lodged between the cross-fire. Just wanted to say thank you for sharing all your hard work with us birders who still have so much to learn. Although I may never see many of the birds you describe and share photos of, from your informative posts I am learning a lot about how to ID the birds I do see.

 

[thrush]

... Seems my previous post got lodged between the cross-fire. ...

Yes, and I regret not answering you sooner. Thank you for the link from Kazakhstan. I'm happy that you're checking in and getting something out of this discussion. Please keep it up! Hope to meet you someday.

 

[thrush]

Yangkou School of Birding

Today is Day 9 of my semi-annual Yangkou Expedition. Yangkou is Elaine's and my School of Birding. Among other accomplishments, Elaine is now accurately distinguishing winter-plumaged Intermediate Egret (shallow gape, rounded crown) from Great Egret (deep gape, flatter crown). Me, I'm embedding the various plumages of the Scolopacids deeper into my mind. I'm also having abstract thoughts. Watching thousands and thousands of birds along a shore, have you ever considered the high suitability of the Avian Model for mudflats? Aves is far and away the dominant class of vertebrate on the exposed mud. Why is this? The answer is (1) birds' ability to fly (can move quickly across the wide plain), (2) their visual bias (can see danger from a long way off), (3) their warm-bloodedness (can operate even in high Arctic), and (4) their bill structure (toothless bill evolved into the "straws" suitable for probing and sucking that characterize many shorebirds). What mammal has mastered the mudflats? None. Consider also that mudflats had been in existence in something like their present form for tens of millions of years before the arrival of birds. The food was there--but no vertebrate had evolved to take advantage of it, before Aves. Here's one of the species that has evolved to take advantage of mudflats: Great Knot (大滨鹬, dà bīnyù, Calidris tenuirostris). C. tenuirostris is listed as Vulnerable by the IUCN. Yesterday, Elaine and I saw 130 Great Knot at an inland roost containing ca. 2700 birds.

 

[thrush]

Banded Grey-tailed Tattler in Yangkou

Adrian Boyle just got back w. me. It's confirmed: The Grey-tailed Tattler I found on Tues. 9 Sept. 2014 had been banded (prob. by Boyle himself) in Broome, W. Australia on 4 March 2014. Interestingly, Broome (122˚ E) is almost due S of Yangkou (121˚ E). Broome is 9000 km from Magadan, Russia, approximately at the same latitude & same region where Tringa brevipes breeds. Since leaving Boyle's hands on 14 March, the tattler I found has prob. flown 9000 km to Siberia & another 3740 km to Yangkou. That's 12,740 km in 6 mos., a rate of 70 km/day. Of course, those distances are "as the crow flies"; our tattler certainly doesn't follow so straight a line, so it's likely the little bird has flown even farther.

 

[bfoutch]

"our tattler certainly doesn't follow so straight a line"

With that big yellow rudder hanging off its right leg, its a wonder it didn't just fly around in circles... ;-)
Kidding aside, that is a stunning distance and testament to how important appropriate and well-placed re-fueling habitat is to these birds. That is why it is so sad to watch as acre after acre of wetland is 'developed' along the coasts of the world and just how important your and other forum member's efforts toward habitat protection is.

 

[MKinHK]

It's great hearing about retraps of ringed birds - thanks for posting the follow-up.

Cheers
Mike

 

[McMadd]

So it flew to Siberia and then immediately turned round?

Your "math" needs looking at:

14/03 to 09/09 is 180 days
(180x70) is 12600 (182x70 gives you the magic 12740 for what it's worth)

Even if it was a failed breeder it was travelling significantly more than 70km/day on the days it actually travelled...knock 50 days off for the breeding season (no I didn't waste my time checking the literature to see what it was) and that puts it up to 98km/day on average...play with the numbers as you wish...40 days off the 180 still gives 91km/day...

Take into account the N-bound journey is assumed to be done at a faster pace as the urge to breed is a strong driver in spring whereas the return, southerly, journey in autumn can be done at a more leisurely pace and quoting average speeds is of little use.

So, as Mike says, celebrate the fact and we all need to push to save the fly-way but don't make up silly numbers please.

 

[bfoutch]

Some nice maps showing migration routes with dates of three, tagged Grey-tailed Tattlers:
http://www.waders.org.au/studying-waders/banding-shorebirds/satellite-transmitters-and-geolocators/

Click on image to magnify.

In #17 'Tattler' newsletter, Ruddy Turnstones were fitted with geolocators and were found to fly impressive distances non-stop: "All four birds flew nonstop 7,600 km from Flinders to Taiwan in just over six days."
www.awsg.org.au/tattler/Tattler-17.pdf

 

[thrush]

It's great hearing about retraps of ringed birds - thanks for posting the follow-up.

Thanks, Mike. Got an update on the tattler. The folks at the Australasian Wader Studies Group know not only which individual bird I found at Yangkou, but they also know its age when it was banded: "2+"!

In an earlier post, I gave the link to the excellent Bird Ringing and Bird Banding group on Facebook. Here's the link again.

The Australasian Wader Studies Group has a Web page set up for making reports. Anyone lucky enough to find a banded bird on the China coast will do well to use that page. I suggest you click on that link and then add that page to your bookmarks.

With that big yellow rudder hanging off its right leg, its a wonder it didn't just fly around in circles... ;-)

I had the same idea when I first saw that big, conspicuous flag! But the bird very possibly made it from Broome to Siberia and is now heading back, with that flag on its tibia the entire time.

... That is why it is so sad to watch as acre after acre of wetland is 'developed' along the coasts of the world and just how important your and other forum member's efforts toward habitat protection is.

Thanks, bfoutch! I can report that the same, sad old story of rampant coastal destruction is being played out at Yangkou. As recently as two years ago, when spring tides reached the sea wall, the shorebirds had a handful of inland roosting sites to choose from. Now, in the immediate vicinity of Yangkou, there are few or none. I saw a few hundred shorebirds nervously waiting out high tide within 75 m of a dormitory for the workers who are arriving in droves to man the stinky factories springing up on the newly reclaimed land. Every last square inch, it seems, of usable land is being gobbled up in an area that is an important stopover site not just for near-threatened birds like Grey-tailed Tattler but also for the critically endangered Spoon-billed Sandpiper.

 

[thrush]

Fellow Snipers! What's Your Take on This Gallinago?

Last Saturday in Yangkou, Jiangsu, China, I saw a snipe in flight. Like a sniper, I aimed my cannon at the bird and shot it--and came up with these photos. I'd like your opinion on the species. Terry Townshend has been working with me on this bird. He has an opinion, as do I, but I'm not going to divulge much, lest I prejudice you.

I'll go this far: It's pretty clear that the bird is not Gallinago gallinago, Common Snipe. I think it's possible to exclude G. gallinago on the basis of my photographs alone; note in particular the lack of a white trailing edge to the wings. When you factor in also that the bird I photographed didn't zig-zag but rather made a smooth circle around the area before settling back in again, then the case is even clearer that we're probably not dealing with a G. gallinago.

But maybe you think I'm wrong on that. Well then, here's your chance to say so.

I hope that studying the attached photo will help you hone your "sniping" skills. I want you to become a more accurate sniper.