Chloris triasi (1 Viewer)

[Melanie]

If someone has access to this article please let me know it

Tijdschrift 43 nummer 1, 2021 - Dutch Birding

www.dutchbirding.nl

43 - 45

Unsuccessful search for Trias’s Greenfinch on La Palma, Canary Islands, in August 2018 George Sangster

 

[Xenospiza]

It should be arriving any day now.

 

[Melanie]

Dr. Sangster was so kind and sent this paper after a request. It's interesting to see that the genus Chloris (formerly Carduelis) is no more present on Macaronesia anymore (only as introduced birds). (It was represented by Carduelis aurelioi and Carduelis triasi).

 

[RafaelMatias]

It's interesting to see that the genus Chloris (formerly Carduelis) is no more present on Macaronesia anymore.

Chloris chloris occurs as an introduced species in the Azores, but I do understand you only intended to refer to original ranges in your sentence.

 

[Melanie]

Chloris chloris occurs as an introduced species in the Azores, but I do understand you only intended to refer to original ranges in your sentence.

The Azores doesn't belong to Macaronesia. Dr. Sangster states that there are several Canary finches and chaffinches on Gran Canaria but absolutely no greenfinch. But there are introduced greenfinches (from the nominate race) on Tenerife.

 

[Fred Ruhe]

Chloris chloris occurs as an introduced species in the Azores, but I do understand you only intended to refer to original ranges in your sentence.

Please stay on the subject, the paper is not on the distribution of Chloris chloris or its distribution in the Azores or how they came there. It is about an extinct species, Chloris triasi, from La Palma, Canary Islands, a species related to Chloris chloris and that bird watchers visiting La Palma don't visit the possible habitat of Chloris triasi. Trias’s Greenfinch is 10% larger than European Greenfinch Chloris chloris but has different proportions from the latter: its upper mandible is 30% deeper whereas its wing bones are shorter. Alcover & Florit (1987) believed that the age of the bones was very recent and that their state of preservation suggested that these probably date back only a few 100 years. They noted that survival of this species ‘in some remote place on La Palma cannot be excluded’ (p 85).

George Sangster searched for the species only one day in the habitat where Alcover and Florit found the remains of the species and he did not find it nor any other species of the genus Chloris. But he calls for birdwatchers that visit La Palma to look for Chloris triasi, not to exclude it at first hand (Well, I believe, they ever heard of the species). It will not be the first species thought to be extinct to found again.

Fred

 

[RafaelMatias]

The Azores doesn't belong to Macaronesia.

What do you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronesia

 

[Melanie]

What do you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronesia

Sorry, I have forgotten that Macaronesia is a much larger region than the Canary Islands and Madeira alone. You are right.

 

[RafaelMatias]

George Sangster searched for the species only one day in the habitat where Alcover and Florit found the remains of the species and he did not find it nor any other species of the genus Chloris. But he calls for birdwatchers that visit La Palma to look for Chloris triasi, not to exclude it at first hand (Well, I believe, they ever heard of the species). It will not be the first species thought to be extinct to found again.

And this is exactly why discussing other Chloris sp. (even introduced populations) may be relevant. If you want to discover a population of the extinct species you should be able to rule out other potentially similar species, and being aware beforehand of the existence of populations of said species is fundamental. My last post in this thread.

 

[Fred Ruhe]

What do you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronesia

We are not talking about Macronesia, that is a group of Islands. As far as known, the distribution of Chlotis triasi is only La Palma, and only one cave, part of the Canary Islands, nowhere else. Not all the islands of Macronesia, but I would not be surprised if other members of the genus Chloris, related to Chloris chloris were also found on other islands of Macronesia (see for instance the genus Coturnix with Coturnix lignorum Rando, Alcover, Pieper, Olson, Hernández et López-Jurado, 2019 from Madeira, Coturnix alabrevis Rando, Alcover, Pieper, Olson, Hernández et López-Jurado, 2019 from Porto Santo Island, Madeira Islands, Coturnix centensis Rando, Alcover, Pieper, Olson, Hernández et López-Jurado, 2019 from São Vicente Island, Cape Verde, Coturnix gomerae Jaume, McMinn et Alcover, 1993 from La Gomera, Canary Islands. Every Island its own species!

Fred

 

[RafaelMatias]

We are not talking about Macronesia, that is a group of Islands

I replied to a specific sentence from Melanie, who actually didn't know what Macaronesia was. The sentence was factually wrong. I couldn't reply to that?

 

[Fred Ruhe]

As I said before: keep to the subject:

Please stay on the subject, the paper is not on the distribution of Chloris chloris or its distribution in the Azores or how they came there. It is about an extinct species, Chloris triasi, from La Palma, Canary Islands, a species related to Chloris chloris and that bird watchers visiting La Palma don't visit the possible habitat of Chloris triasi. Trias’s Greenfinch is 10% larger than European Greenfinch Chloris chloris but has different proportions from the latter: its upper mandible is 30% deeper whereas its wing bones are shorter. Alcover & Florit (1987) believed that the age of the bones was very recent and that their state of preservation suggested that these probably date back only a few 100 years. They noted that survival of this species ‘in some remote place on La Palma cannot be excluded’ (p 85).

George Sangster searched for the species only one day in the habitat where Alcover and Florit found the remains of the species and he did not find it nor any other species of the genus Chloris. But he calls for birdwatchers that visit La Palma to look for Chloris triasi, not to exclude it at first hand (Well, I believe, they ever heard of the species). It will not be the first species thought to be extinct to found again.

Fred

Of course you are allowed to reply on what is said. But keep to the subject, we now all know that Chloris triasi is restricted to La Palma, yes it is a part of Macronesia, but it is also part of the world. And the subject of the distribution of Chloris chloris or the geography of Macronesia doesn't belong in this thread, whether you like it or not. Feel free to start another thread on the geogrophy of the Azores, Macronesia or whatever you want, very interesting, but not on a thread on the search for Chloris triasi. This is not the Bird Name Etymology subforum where jump from subject to subject so that nobody understands what they are talking about.

Fred

 

[RafaelMatias]

As I said before: keep to the subject:

Of course you are allowed to reply on what is said. But keep to the subject, we now all know that Chloris triasi is restricted to La Palma, yes it is a part of Macronesia, but it is also part of the world. And the subject of the distribution of Chloris chloris or the geography of Macronesia doesn't belong in this thread, whether you like it or not. Feel free to start another thread on the geogrophy of the Azores, Macronesia or whatever you want, very interesting, but not on a thread on the search for Chloris triasi. This is not the Bird Name Etymology subforum where jump from subject to subject so that nobody understands what they are talking about.

Fred

Right. Macaronesia, not Macronesia (unrelated to Micronesia). You're welcome. Over and out.

 

[Fred Ruhe]

Well, for those who want to read the paper, here it is. See attachment.

And I apologise for the mistake naming Macaronesia Macronesia. Sorry

Fred

 

[Melanie]

I apologise that I've restricted Macaronesia to Madeira and the Canary Islands. I mean that there are no endemic Chloris species on the Canary Islands.

 

[jurek]

It would be interesting to see ancient DNA analysis of this and other Macaronesian endemics.