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Covid restrictions in England at nature reserves (1 Viewer)

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
So what do you propose? Are we gonna live like this forever? Because the virus is not going anywhere. I am not willing to give up my life for your fear of this particular virus. Mask wearing and social distancing are NOT minor incoveniences.
None of us live forever, but you have still have a choice though to comply with what is deemed best practice by a Government's professional advisors. You cannot mistake proposed anarchy by yourself to be in the interests of the majority ( sensible ones I might add ) who continue to protect themselves and others by choosing to wear a mask. I understand your frustration but you have to be reasonable. We all have suffered with restrictions and massive change, dont be selfish.
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
They say that knowledge is power, but it also brings a heavy burden of sadness to carry ....

Just imagine, if only for a brief second, that you knew EXACTLY what was going on, and WHY ..... big big clue, it's got nothing to do with the story that's being pumped out 24/7. Yeah, I know, a big chunk of you just about spat your muesli out and judged me to be this, that or the other. Whatever - humour me and just entertain the idea.

Since we are stretching your imaginations, let's also acknowledge the fact that you had Covid ~18 months ago. You weren't in the peak fitness of your youth, you weren't even particularly mobile, although you didn't have co-morbidities. You didn't sail through it without even knowing (like the ~17~60% of people who are completely asymptomatic, study dataset depending) , and you obviously didn't die like an infinitesimally small % of people do (remember, you will also know the real figures are many-fold lower than the officially quoted figures). You didn't even go to hospital - good move as it turns out back then, since treatment protocols were in the - ahem, development stages. So you weren't killed as a guineapig undergoing inappropriate and even detrimental treatment.

No, .... you spent a day feeling a bit off, were sweating like a biatch, and had a temperature that you estimated at ~39 °C (because you didn't measure it you didn't panic, but you knew it was nowhere near the 41+°C you had when younger - the one where you were freezing your t*ts off even though you had 5 blankets on). You had this weird dry cough that was pretty much continuous for the whole afternoon. You felt like if you didn't cough it was almost like suffocating - so you coughed and breathed, coughed and breathed. Breathing seemed like a good recipe for continued life.

Even as you were laying down sweating, and periodically sitting up to cough (with nothing coming out) - you remember thinking to yourself, well this is weird - why the heck am I sweating so much, and what's this dry cough - I've never experienced anything like that in my life. You distinctly remember thinking well, if I have to miss my Saturday with this ~24?hr thing, then how awesome is it ! No headache, no runny nose or stuffed head, no gunk in the lungs, and best off all - no sore throat - jeez, I'm loving this ! This is the best flu or whatever I've ever had ! No sore throat !!

So that's how you spend the afternoon, laying down sweating, sitting up to cough constantly (when is that going to end - it's really quite annoying), drinking some water to replace the fluids, and have a mandarine or two. Huh, how cool is this - no gunk and no sore throat - score ! Cough and breathe, cough and breathe, and breathe some more

You wake up the next morning and you are well on the mend. You have a nice lunch and then go for a bush walk in the sun. You hear about all of this emerging hoo-har on the TV and think to yourself (hmm - top two symptoms to a T - must go to the Dr.'s when he is back on Tuesday and alert them to the public health crisis unfolding, since you reckon it's a good bet you've picked it up in public from sitting next to that Iranian traveller on the bus, holding on to any and all handrails to hold yourself up, and then eating a chicken fillet burger without washing your hands - ya've got a coupla ruptured discs in ya back yer see ....)

Wow - a global 'pandemic' - this MUST be serious .....

Now ask yourself how you would feel when witnessing the division of people, the derision, judgement, even persecution amongst each other.

How would you feel when you hear people advocate that they're fine with the diktat of some unaccountable (you know they're unaccountable because the right to public assembly and protest is outlawed) cabal that will mandate the injection into an individual's body of an un-fully-tested product that, oh, ding ding - just happens to be exempt from product liability (exempted by the same cabal that suspended laws under 'emergency powers', and outlawed protest) ? That they support the restriction of people who refuse to be coerced or blackmailed into injecting a problematic product (the mandatory reporting of adverse reactions to the products are in such numbers that you go - uh-oh .....) in accessing supermarkets (fantastic places supermarkets - so many people, in such close proximity, common air conditioning systems, and almost no cases of transmission accredited to them - magic !), etc (well it's ok, the dopey uninjected callous sub-humans can just pay for a test - you know, the one that's not fit for purpose, and gives irrelevant results anyway).

You witness fellow humans treat each other this way - blinded, fooled, blaming .......
You see the fear among and 'between' people, and you are sad,
You even see quite a few people who are literally scared to death, and you feel sadder still,
And you wonder .....
Can the zombie apocalypse really be that far away ..... ?

So to distract yourself from this sadness, you cruise on over to the gubba-mint website to see what step in the grand plan they are up to, and it reads:-

From 12.01am Monday, 23 August, the following additional rule will also be introduced for Greater Sydney (including regional NSW until 28 August):
  • Mask wearing will be mandatory when outside your home, except when exercising.

Jeez, so they've finally done it - they've controlled free access to unrestricted fresh air even if there's no-one around you .....

Not only are your travel, business, employment, etc freedoms now subject to mandatory product injection and digital proof, tracking, and production of papers, but your serenity sitting in nature is constantly disturbed by the police surveillance helicopters doing laps above your head ..... even George Orwell's predictions fell short of this nightmare .....

And so you look to the people for their outrage ....... only to see them lined up in two separate queues, leading through the 'facility' gates for 'treatment' .....

You ask yourself is this the late 1930s ?? No, but the Psy-Ops are just as easy - maybe even easier .....

You shake your, head, take a deep breath, and walk off into the sunshine, a bit sad that quite a few of the humans aren't going to make it ..........

221614592_385538156264539_3058127449420526640_n.jpg


Chosun 🙇‍♀️
 
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PaulCountyDurham

Well-known member
United Kingdom
When you get covid after vaccination, it's not much more dangerous to you than a flu.

There is no empirical evidence to support this.

As it stands in England, around 33% of those infected have been double jabbed which shows that the vaccines are effective to an extent given that a far higher percentage of the population have had both doses. In Wales, 60% of those hospitalised in a week had been double jabbed. You would expect the majority to have had both doses given that the unvaccinated largely belong to less vulnerable groups. What may be of concern is that in England we're struggling for released data in terms of fully vaccinated people hospitalised, and this information must be available.

This situation doesn't have to be political. And, this is not about restriction of freedom. In fact, unlike parts of Europe, there is no groundswell of support for banning things such as Muslim attire in this country because in that event this country and everything it supposedly stands for would be finished. The point of saying that is the vast majority of us do not want to see individuals have their freedom eroded because of some half-baked political viewpoint, and that applies in this situation.

We live in a world where we're conditioned to not care about things beyond our immediate existence. Wearing a mask and social distancing is a chance to make a statement: that actually we can empathise with strangers losing their lives. I'm sure you'll concede that on occasion it's turned out you have been wrong, as I would, so perhaps you're wrong in this situation or maybe I am. By accepting you could be wrong here and wearing a mask and social distancing, what do you stand to lose? You have a lot to gain, because if you are wrong you've helped save someone's life. If you're right you've lost nothing by wearing a mask and social distancing.

Just out of idle curiosity, why is it so important to you to see this as a conspiracy of some sorts? I'm pretty confident you do not have the scientific apparatus to compete with the various health and scientific bodies around the world who disagree with you, so your objection is clearly not based on empirical data but something else.
 

PaulCountyDurham

Well-known member
United Kingdom
Not only are your travel, business, employment, etc freedoms now subject to mandatory product injection and digital proof, tracking, and production of papers, but your serenity sitting in nature is constantly disturbed by the police surveillance helicopters doing laps above your head ..... even George Orwell's predictions fell short of this nightmare .....

Chosun 🙇‍♀️

We're simply another animal species who are nowhere near as clever or important as we like to think: it's an all too typical human self-delusion to think there is some big game going on and we know what it is. Conspiracy theories are attractive because they trick us into thinking we understand the world and what is going on around us. Not everyone's mind can cope with the most viable of options, which is that we don't know very much at all and most of what goes on around us, including the authorities, is outside of our control.

So, the idea that those standing against masks or social distancing are somehow enlightened doesn't wash with me. They do not know anywhere near what they think they know.

And, George Orwell? It was hardly earth shattering news that power corrupts, this has been known since the dawn of time, so what are you left with? Empathy.
 

Mono

Hi!
Staff member
Supporter
Europe
You can carry on with the more wide ranging discussion and move the thread to Ruffled Feathers or you can stick to the thread title.
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
There is something wrong with you - celebrating at the beginning of the pandemic that it would mean guides would lose their jobs (because you don't like to use guides), ranting about Covid restrictions from the outset, now dismissing a virus that is still hospitalising people as nothing more than flu (even in vaccinated people, Israel for example is reporting quite high levels of hospitalisation). Mask wearing and social distancing are not major infringements on freedoms, they are minor inconveniences - if they have the potential to reduce possible impact on others, then what's the big deal?
Says the bloke who 'flounced' off to Africa to avoid it all ;)
 

IAN JAMES THOMPSON

Well-known member
I don’t mind wearing a mask as I do at present and will continue to do so in bird hides I would make it mandatory for everyone in England, unless there is definite evidence provided from an individuals GP, that, that person’s physical medical condition might be life threatening for any reason by wearing a mask and I don’t mean mental health conditions. As anyone who has a mental health problem should talk to someone from NHS with there worries. And that would include all bird hides where there are staff/volunteers on site.
 

kb57

Well-known member
Europe
I don’t mind wearing a mask as I do at present and will continue to do so in bird hides I would make it mandatory for everyone in England, unless there is definite evidence provided from an individuals GP, that, that person’s physical medical condition might be life threatening for any reason by wearing a mask and I don’t mean mental health conditions. As anyone who has a mental health problem should talk to someone from NHS with there worries. And that would include all bird hides where there are staff/volunteers on site.
A commendable attempt at getting this thread back on track Ian!

I tend to agree with you, however well-ventilated a bird hide is there is still more risk than being out in the open. My partner is more risk-averse than myself, and there is no way I am going to get her to agree to a hide-based birding trip this year. This rules out a few RSPB reserves where the birding is almost exclusively hide-based, such as Blacktoft Sands, and would degrade the birding experience at many others. I don't know what RSPB hides are like at the moment, but since mask restrictions were lifted in UK a lot of people in shops and buses have given up wearing them - particularly it would seem younger people, who are less likely to be double vaccinated.
 

PaulCountyDurham

Well-known member
United Kingdom
A commendable attempt at getting this thread back on track Ian!

I tend to agree with you, however well-ventilated a bird hide is there is still more risk than being out in the open. My partner is more risk-averse than myself, and there is no way I am going to get her to agree to a hide-based birding trip this year. This rules out a few RSPB reserves where the birding is almost exclusively hide-based, such as Blacktoft Sands, and would degrade the birding experience at many others. I don't know what RSPB hides are like at the moment, but since mask restrictions were lifted in UK a lot of people in shops and buses have given up wearing them - particularly it would seem younger people, who are less likely to be double vaccinated.

I hope this is taken in the spirit it's meant which is mask wearing in hides, as per the OP.

This is why I think masks in hides should be mandated:

According to ONS figures, in a recent five week period 0.3% of people over 70s were infected. Given that we have roughly 8.7 million people over 70 then that's roughly 750 over 70s per day. Of approx. 32,000 recorded daily infections. What is happening with those other people most at risk such as diabetics, who accounted for roughly 25% of hospital deaths during the first wave? Are they keeping a low profile and so aren't being infected in large numbers?

There is a real possibility here that of the 32,000 recorded as being infected on a daily basis, only around 1,500, or even less, are infections among people at reasonable risk and more. And yet, this time last year we opened at the beginning of July but it took to the week ending 23rd October to average 100 daily deaths in England and Wales and then it just went off the wall. We're already matching that most important of measures, although granted we relaxed measures before July and fully opening up.

I don't mean to frighten anyone at risk, and there are some very positive signs elsewhere, but there are certainly some indicators that suggest a little bit of inconvenience in terms of social distancing and mask wearing could prevent a whole load of mess and heartache during the coming winter.
 

IAN JAMES THOMPSON

Well-known member
I hope this is taken in the spirit it's meant which is mask wearing in hides, as per the OP.

This is why I think masks in hides should be mandated:

According to ONS figures, in a recent five week period 0.3% of people over 70s were infected. Given that we have roughly 8.7 million people over 70 then that's roughly 750 over 70s per day. Of approx. 32,000 recorded daily infections. What is happening with those other people most at risk such as diabetics, who accounted for roughly 25% of hospital deaths during the first wave? Are they keeping a low profile and so aren't being infected in large numbers?

There is a real possibility here that of the 32,000 recorded as being infected on a daily basis, only around 1,500, or even less, are infections among people at reasonable risk and more. And yet, this time last year we opened at the beginning of July but it took to the week ending 23rd October to average 100 daily deaths in England and Wales and then it just went off the wall. We're already matching that most important of measures, although granted we relaxed measures before July and fully opening up.

I don't mean to frighten anyone at risk, and there are some very positive signs elsewhere, but there are certainly some indicators that suggest a little bit of inconvenience in terms of social distancing and mask wearing could prevent a whole load of mess and heartache during the coming winter.
I’ve had Diabetes Type 2 for about 8 years and i‘m very careful with my diet along with social distancing and as well as hides that Ive mentioned, local transport that i use is shocking now the number of adults not wearing masks, even though it’s now not mandatory to do so. One pierce of praise i must give is to my local Wildfowl Trust reserve Washington Wetlands is that since the Covid Pandemic started, staff and volunteers have disanfected and cleaned all the hides 3 times a day and done every day since the Covid Pandemic started and that’s happened the periods the hides where allowed to be open to the pubic. Also Sanatiser in and out of every hide as well as all the toilets and the cafe. Washington Wetlands in Tyne and Wear have really excelled themselves. I wish i could say the same about another well known bird reserve in North East England owned by another well known national bird conservation organisation. But sadly I can’t! Although later than never, Sanatiser is now available in every Hide at this other well known bird reserve..
 
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They say that knowledge is power, but it also brings a heavy burden of sadness to carry ....

Just imagine, if only for a brief second, that you knew EXACTLY what was going on, and WHY ..... big big clue, it's got nothing to do with the story that's being pumped out 24/7. Yeah, I know, a big chunk of you just about spat your muesli out and judged me to be this, that or the other. Whatever - humour me and just entertain the idea.

Since we are stretching your imaginations, let's also acknowledge the fact that you had Covid ~18 months ago. You weren't in the peak fitness of your youth, you weren't even particularly mobile, although you didn't have co-morbidities. You didn't sail through it without even knowing (like the ~17~60% of people who are completely asymptomatic, study dataset depending) , and you obviously didn't die like an infinitesimally small % of people do (remember, you will also know the real figures are many-fold lower than the officially quoted figures). You didn't even go to hospital - good move as it turns out back then, since treatment protocols were in the - ahem, development stages. So you weren't killed as a guineapig undergoing inappropriate and even detrimental treatment.

No, .... you spent a day feeling a bit off, were sweating like a biatch, and had a temperature that you estimated at ~39 °C (because you didn't measure it you didn't panic, but you knew it was nowhere near the 41+°C you had when younger - the one where you were freezing your t*ts off even though you had 5 blankets on). You had this weird dry cough that was pretty much continuous for the whole afternoon. You felt like if you didn't cough it was almost like suffocating - so you coughed and breathed, coughed and breathed. Breathing seemed like a good recipe for continued life.

Even as you were laying down sweating, and periodically sitting up to cough (with nothing coming out) - you remember thinking to yourself, well this is weird - why the heck am I sweating so much, and what's this dry cough - I've never experienced anything like that in my life. You distinctly remember thinking well, if I have to miss my Saturday with this ~24?hr thing, then how awesome is it ! No headache, no runny nose or stuffed head, no gunk in the lungs, and best off all - no sore throat - jeez, I'm loving this ! This is the best flu or whatever I've ever had ! No sore throat !!

So that's how you spend the afternoon, laying down sweating, sitting up to cough constantly (when is that going to end - it's really quite annoying), drinking some water to replace the fluids, and have a mandarine or two. Huh, how cool is this - no gunk and no sore throat - score ! Cough and breathe, cough and breathe, and breathe some more

You wake up the next morning and you are well on the mend. You have a nice lunch and then go for a bush walk in the sun. You hear about all of this emerging hoo-har on the TV and think to yourself (hmm - top two symptoms to a T - must go to the Dr.'s when he is back on Tuesday and alert them to the public health crisis unfolding, since you reckon it's a good bet you've picked it up in public from sitting next to that Iranian traveller on the bus, holding on to any and all handrails to hold yourself up, and then eating a chicken fillet burger without washing your hands - ya've got a coupla ruptured discs in ya back yer see ....)

Wow - a global 'pandemic' - this MUST be serious .....

Now ask yourself how you would feel when witnessing the division of people, the derision, judgement, even persecution amongst each other.

How would you feel when you hear people advocate that they're fine with the diktat of some unaccountable (you know they're unaccountable because the right to public assembly and protest is outlawed) cabal that will mandate the injection into an individual's body of an un-fully-tested product that, oh, ding ding - just happens to be exempt from product liability (exempted by the same cabal that suspended laws under 'emergency powers', and outlawed protest) ? That they support the restriction of people who refuse to be coerced or blackmailed into injecting a problematic product (the mandatory reporting of adverse reactions to the products are in such numbers that you go - uh-oh .....) in accessing supermarkets (fantastic places supermarkets - so many people, in such close proximity, common air conditioning systems, and almost no cases of transmission accredited to them - magic !), etc (well it's ok, the dopey uninjected callous sub-humans can just pay for a test - you know, the one that's not fit for purpose, and gives irrelevant results anyway).

You witness fellow humans treat each other this way - blinded, fooled, blaming .......
You see the fear among and 'between' people, and you are sad,
You even see quite a few people who are literally scared to death, and you feel sadder still,
And you wonder .....
Can the zombie apocalypse really be that far away ..... ?

So to distract yourself from this sadness, you cruise on over to the gubba-mint website to see what step in the grand plan they are up to, and it reads:-



Jeez, so they've finally done it - they've controlled free access to unrestricted fresh air even if there's no-one around you .....

Not only are your travel, business, employment, etc freedoms now subject to mandatory product injection and digital proof, tracking, and production of papers, but your serenity sitting in nature is constantly disturbed by the police surveillance helicopters doing laps above your head ..... even George Orwell's predictions fell short of this nightmare .....

And so you look to the people for their outrage ....... only to see them lined up in two separate queues, leading through the 'facility' gates for 'treatment' .....

You ask yourself is this the late 1930s ?? No, but the Psy-Ops are just as easy - maybe even easier .....

You shake your, head, take a deep breath, and walk off into the sunshine, a bit sad that quite a few of the humans aren't going to make it ..........

View attachment 1401480


Chosun 🙇‍♀️
Brilliant post and spot on
 

Farnboro John

Well-known member
I’ve had Diabetes Type 2 for about 8 years and i‘m very careful with my diet along with social distancing and as well as hides that Ive mentioned, local transport that i use is shocking now the number of adults not wearing masks, even though it’s now not mandatory to do so. One pierce of praise i must give is to my local Wildfowl Trust reserve Washington Wetlands is that since the Covid Pandemic started, staff and volunteers have disanfected and cleaned all the hides 3 times a day and done every day since the Covid Pandemic started and that’s happened the periods the hides where allowed to be open to the pubic. Also Sanatiser in and out of every hide as well as all the toilets and the cafe. Washington Wetlands in Tyne and Wear have really excelled themselves. I wish i could say the same about another well known bird reserve in North East England owned by another well known national bird conservation organisation. But sadly I can’t! Although later than never, Sanatiser is now available in every Hide at this other well known bird reserve..
The thing is though, TFL has established pretty well conclusively that surfaces are a non-threat, full stop the end. So all the emphasis on cleaning hides is a complete waste of time, effort and charity money. Follow the science.

John
 

Robert Wallace

Well-known member
Well, I consider myself to be a pragmatic person and not influenced by political dogma in any way, shape or form.

We have had 94 people recorded as dying on a single day in the last week. Take into account the lag in infection to loss of life and the fact that cases really took off say a month ago, and add in that hospitalisation is on the increase; then that number could quite conceivably be 200 people before too long.

Is it worth wearing a mask for 15 minutes if it helps in some small way to keep those numbers down? Of course it is. Does that mean I'm somehow a servant of the state? You couldn't be farther from the truth.

The government and associates do not need to inform anyone with a pair of eyes and ears that there is a very dangerous virus doing the rounds and we don't yet know exactly how effective the vaccines are going to be. I'm not sure how it is in the Czech Republic but a good proportion of people shouting about freedom in this country wouldn't know John Locke from John Smiths: they have never thought to read and learn about the democratic process over the centuries in this country because they have no interest in freedom and what it means. They're not fooling anyone except themselves.

As for hides, I don't usually go in them because I prefer a more 'natural' setting but I was in one in County Durham during the week just gone and there was no requirement to wear a mask.
 

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