covids mobbing birds of prey ever end up in death? (1 Viewer)

[scuba0095]

I often see covids (usually american crows) mobbing hawks here. Usually its not that serious but once in a while I will see them go a little nuts and nail the hawk pretty hard in the head. Does this ever end up in the death of the raptor? its just some of those blows seem harsh! And i know that covids are smarter So i wonder if they ever work together and actually end up killing the raptor?

On tv i saw a pair of ravens mobbing a golden eagle. The hits also seemed pretty harsh I dont know how raptors can handle constant blows to the head by these birds on a every day basis 24/7. Do they have heads made of steal?

 

[davethebird]

I've never seen a raptor killed by a mobbing bird but I once saw a mobbing bird killed.

A pair of Javan Mynahs were mobbing a flying White-bellied Sea-eagle in Singapore. After taking a few blows to the head and body the eagle flicked over on to its back and grabbed one of the mynahs. It bit the wings off and they spiralled to earth as the eagle appeared to eat the rest of the mynah as it flew on its way. Amazing agility.

Dave

 

[Himalaya]

would it not depend upon the type of raptor and corvid? someone recently told me about 6 magpies grounding a kestrel and chances are they cold have killed it. magpies are pretty clumsy fliers how they managed to do that is amazing.

i remember seeing a carrion crow mobbing a sparrowhawk but the crow did not want to get too close and the sparrowhawk would do a manouvere which would make the crow back off for a while. i have heard that the haweswater golden eagle fights with single Ravens now and then but im surprised it dont make a meal out of them if they become too annoying. it wont be that difficult as peregrines and goshawks do take ravens so why should nt a golden eagle which can take foxes?

bbc spring watch showed a golden eagle being mobbed by 2 hooded crows.

out of most birds of prey it appears that buzzards suffer the most from corvids. yet they dont appear to respond much.

theres footae of bald eagle nests in america being under attack by ravens and one day one of them became dinner.

do corvids know when to mob a raptor and when not too?

 

[alexf]

Last week I saw a RedKite getting harrassed by Crows, the Kite would keep twisting its head and feet back which would scare the crow for a while. You could see it was getting annoyed but it really didnt go out f its way to hurt the Crow, more like shooing it away

 

[DEREK.C.]

I`m no expert but sometimes i think Corvids are not as scared of a raptor ,as long as its them following it,or perhaps as long as they can see it ,they know its whereabouts.
From my experiences they seem to be more concerned about the surprise attack more than anything.A female Sparrowhawk or Peregrine swooping down has them scattering all ways.
Last spring i saw a pair of Jays have a right go at a male Sparrowhawk ,which landed near their nest, also i`ve seen a Tawny Owl get the better of a juvenile male sparrowhawk ,in fact the Tawny was sitting on the hawk at one stage.
But i wouldnt have thought a corvid would kill a raptor, unless the raptor was weakened in some way.

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

I saw a mockingbird going at a perched red-tail for about a half hour. The red-tail seemed more annoyed than anything, excpt when the mocker would actually make contact.

OTOH, I once saw a sharp-shin take a run at a migrating golden eagle from underneath. Not a smart move on the sharpie's part. He won't make that mistake again (literally).

 

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

Have seen a red kite take a crow that was harrassing and reported it at the time. Was told it was the third report of this in north Leeds so maybe a particular tactic?

 

[mike from ebbw]

Once saw a group of Ravens mobbing a Buzzard.They were giving it hell,until a female Goshawk came on the scene.The Ravens scattered in all directions!

 

[scuba0095]

what was the buzzards reaction to the goshawk?

 

[Himalaya]

i would not have thought a red kite could take a crow.

Have seen a red kite take a crow that was harrassing and reported it at the time. Was told it was the third report of this in north Leeds so maybe a particular tactic?

 

[Himalaya]

buzzards always seem to be the biggest victims of harassment by corvids. wonder if a buzzard could hunt a crow?
heard of 2 buzzards attacking a red kite.

uzzard.They were giving it hell,until a female Goshawk came on the scene.The Ravens scattered in all directions![/QUOTE]

 

[Gingling]

Interesting topic:>

I watched a bald eagle carry a freshly killed raven to a hill top just today up near grand coulee Dam and have lunch. It was a adult eagle and it's mate and young one from this years nesting were there as well.

It works both ways. Corvids mob other types of birds that prey on them if they get the chance and upper hand for a mobbing. One winter I Watched a large male raven take a female redtail by the back of the wings in flight and ride her like a surf board into the frozen ground.

Seen blackbilled magpies mob raven nests using their ability to turn on a dime to evade the angry ravens and with each pass over the ravens nest striking the young ravens still in the nest with their talons in attempts to knock them out of the nest.

Watched a group of ravens form a circle around a grounded bald eagle one afternoon and pull out most of it's tail feathers before it got away. Seen bald eagle stand on the edge of a raven nest one time and kill the chicks and toss them over the side not even interested in eating them.

It is a real madhouse when it comes to corvids and those that eat and compete with them. They retaliate and they are very organized at it as a rule.

At the same time I have seen blackbills , bald eagles , ravens and retails all stand with yards of each other eating contently without giving each other a second glance of mistrust.

A lot depends on the time of the year and who has what to loose at the time of the encounter.

All and all most corvids are very easy for raptors to get along with until it costs them a family member or a close call or creates competition for food.

JR.

 

[DEREK.C.]

buzzards always seem to be the biggest victims of harassment by corvids. wonder if a buzzard could hunt a crow?
heard of 2 buzzards attacking a red kite.

Round my way birds d`ont seem bothered by Buzzards ,the same way as they are by Peregrines ,Sparrowhawks etc.
Saw a Buzzard fly into a tree full of Wood Pigeon and Stock Dove to perch. The Pigeons didnt bat an eye lid.

 

[Fernando np]

Twenty six years ago one of my favourite places for birding was a swalow well in the farming plains of Segovia, in Spain. There was the only source of water, and shadow, in kilometers round. My my aim there were the shy sandgrouses, but they weren't the only users. One day I was enjoying looking through my bottom level binoculars, a pair of Zenith 10X50, at a male of Montagu's Harrier while he was having a bath. Suddenly six ravens came. It wasn't a mobbing, but a very organized attack. A pair of corvids, not always the same kept a same hight. When the harrier was able to get some speed was easily stoped for one diving. The other four ravens were involve in body to body. When I wasn't able to bare more, I started to cry and throw stones. The raptor could fly free although with more lee feathers. Whitout doubt, the harrier would have died without my perturbance. Nowadays I'd had kept quiet the hide.

 

[rozinante]

Whitout doubt, the harrier would have died without my perturbance. Nowadays I'd had kept quiet the hide.

It is hard not to take sides.

Nothing against the corvids but although I know I shouldn't, I am not so sure I could restrain myself from intervening in such a case.

 

[Gingling]

Montagu's Harrier while he was having a bath. Suddenly six ravens came.

When it comes to corvids and harriers , bath time is a dangerous time. With wet feathers they are slow to move both in the air and on the ground.

Water weight.

The ravens probably watched the Harrier get good and wet from a distance before moving in to make their case. As for killing it , I seriously doubt it. Although it is not unheard of it is in fact a very rare happening.

Ravens have a relatively soft bill and their adult talons are a far cry from needle sharp. Still , they do on occasion finish off competitors as the goes around comes around karma kicks in.

I once remained perfectly still in snow up to my waist and watched a cougar kill a doe deer less then sixty feet from me. Cougar season was opened and I had the appropriate license.

I was in an either sex deer hunting area and the season on deer was opened to. I had a rifle in my hands. When the cougar finished off the doe I slowly backed away from one very hungry cat as it proudly held a firm grip on the throat of that old doe and left the scene.

There are some things that take place in the wild that are simply not of our concern or judgment. Corvids fighting back for survival as an intelligent collective family social structure is one of them.

Natural selection to insure survival of the fittest is another. Although I understand completely the helpless feeling experienced by the less hardened observers of nature that can not resist throwing in their two cents, I will always walk another path.

Green some times seems mean .

JR.

 

[rozinante]

When it comes to corvids and harriers , bath time is a dangerous time. With wet feathers they are slow to move both in the air and on the ground.

Water weight.

The ravens probably watched the Harrier get good and wet from a distance before moving in to make their case. As for killing it , I seriously doubt it. Although it is not unheard of it is in fact a very rare happening.

Ravens have a relatively soft bill and their adult talons are a far cry from needle sharp. Still , they do on occasion finish off competitors as the goes around comes around karma kicks in.

I once remained perfectly still in snow up to my waist and watched a cougar kill a doe deer less then sixty feet from me. Cougar season was opened and I had the appropriate license.

I was in an either sex deer hunting area and the season on deer was opened to. I had a rifle in my hands. When the cougar finished off the doe I slowly backed away from one very hungry cat as it proudly held a firm grip on the throat of that old doe and left the scene.

There are some things that take place in the wild that are simply not of our concern or judgment. Corvids fighting back for survival as an intelligent collective family social structure is one of them.

Natural selection to insure survival of the fittest is another. Although I understand completely the helpless feeling experienced by the less hardened observers of nature that can not resist throwing in their two cents, I will always walk another path.

Green some times seems mean .

JR.

Great story about the cougar and the deer JR. That must have been an amazing sight. I think that deer's number was up one way or another that day. Would the cougar have known you were there at that range?

On the matter of the ravens and the harrier, I am struggling to understand the ravens attack as survival behavior and even less as "natural selection". Especially as you say that such attacks are rarely fatal. What positive effect on the ravens breeding success would you suggest such an attack might have?

I would not dream of interfering unnecessarily in most genuine survival situations. I would make an exception if I can prevent an animal’s death or suffering though. I accept even that could deprive some scavenger of it's supper. I certainly think I could reasonably justify my metaphorical throwing in of two cents in favor of the harrier though. After all, many of the more hardened observers of nature can't resist throwing infinitely more destructive projectiles.

I agree with your green slogan btw. You only need to suggest that people might consider consuming less to realise the truth in that.
In fact your cougar and deer encounter inspired me to compose another one in its honor:-

Hunting can sometimes seem humane.

 

[Gingling]

Great story about the cougar and the deer JR. That must have been an amazing sight. I think that deer's number was up one way or another that day. Would the cougar have known you were there at that range?

On the matter of the ravens and the harrier, I am struggling to understand the ravens attack as survival behavior and even less as "natural selection". Especially as you say that such attacks are rarely fatal. What positive effect on the ravens breeding success would you suggest such an attack might have?

I would not dream of interfering unnecessarily in most genuine survival situations. I would make an exception if I can prevent an animal’s death or suffering though. I accept even that could deprive some scavenger of it's supper. I certainly think I could reasonably justify my metaphorical throwing in of two cents in favor of the harrier though. After all, many of the more hardened observers of nature can't resist throwing infinitely more destructive projectiles.

I agree with your green slogan btw. You only need to suggest that people might consider consuming less to realize the truth in that.
In fact your cougar and deer encounter inspired me to compose another one in its honor:-

Hunting can sometimes seem humane.

We have Harriers around here. They kill juvenile ravens often. When they enter a ravens nesting territory it can get rather heated between them. At the same time , when a Harrier is on the ground with freshly killed prey ravens some times will attempt to swipe it given the view to a prepped meal on the plate.

If the cat saw me it did not give any indication of it. It was kind of busy at the time. Then again , so was the first sleeping deer I leaned over and startled awake.

He was so freaked out he ran by a rock outcropping and broke off an antler on his way .

The coyote I goosed a few years back probably never was the same. It to was sleeping. I have spent forty two years learning to blend in with my native lands and walk around it's inhabitants.

I no longer hunt. Still what I have learned I use a lot these days. Bumped into a black bear at a fishing hole yesterday. Four hundred pound class sow actually.

Within thirty feet of them in the wild you have breached their fight or flee radius. Most run , still on occasion one will take after you. For that reason I always pack when out in the sticks.

I buy the appropriate licenses to take for who ever might want to mix it up with me when spending a lot of time out. It is a lot easier to explain to a game warden then the worn out phrase , I was defending myself.

One year, I and two of my friends were on the clockum in the eastern cascades sight seeing. We split up. One of my friends started calling out for help and we came running. He was pinned to the ground by a rutting four point mule deer with a bad attitude.

It was all we could do to pull it off him. Alone against a 240 pound mule deer , a guy can really get messed up. It probably would have killed my friend in fact.


JR.

 

[Gingling]

would it not depend upon the type of raptor and corvid? someone recently told me about 6 magpies grounding a kestrel and chances are they cold have killed it. magpies are pretty clumsy fliers how they managed to do that is amazing.

I remember seeing a carrion crow mobbing a sparrowhawk but the crow did not want to get too close and the sparrowhawk would do a maneuver which would make the crow back off for a while. I have heard that the haweswater golden eagle fights with single Ravens now and then but im surprised it don't make a meal out of them if they become too annoying. it wont be that difficult as peregrines and goshawks do take ravens so why should nt a golden eagle which can take foxes?

bbc spring watch showed a golden eagle being mobbed by 2 hooded crows.

out of most birds of prey it appears that buzzards suffer the most from corvids. yet they don't appear to respond much.

there's footae of bald eagle nests in America being under attack by ravens and one day one of them became dinner.

do corvids know when to mob a raptor and when not too?

Our blackbilled magpies can turn on a dime. They look rather clumsy in flight but nothing could be farther from the fact. They can out turn crows , ravens , most raptors and just tease the heck out of bear , cats , and coyotes and get away with it.

Bob cats with a meal do pretty well against them though.

As for how do they determine when to mob ? There are many determining factors they use but of this you may be sure, they hold their loved ones very close and their enemies even closer.

Few survival strategies are lost on them and the older they get the more they learn. The common raven can for instance live more then fifty years when everything works in their favor.

I have come to realize many types of corvids have a memory most probably comparable to our own for longevity of detail.

JR.

 

[charlierocky]

I was out walking yesterday and watched a pair of buzzards through my scope. They had attracted the attention of a group of crows as usual. What I saw was slightly different from the norm I think because the two buzzards, for once were working as a pair. Whilst the crows were bulling one individual buzzard the other at a distance came swooping in. This had the effect of keeping the crows on their guard and making their mobbing much less effective. In the past I have watched a similar situation and one buzzard would have all the attention of the crows and the other would do nothing. Makes you wonder why the buzzards don't work together more offten, when they do they certainly looked effective.