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Crested Jay (1 Viewer)

Markus Lagerqvist

Well-known member
Sweden
I prefer Jay Shrike (or Jayshrike), which used in the Birds of the Indonesian Archipelago, since it's more of a jaylike shrike than a shrikelike jay.
As a second choice I'd go for Shrikejay.
 

Mysticete

Well-known member
United States
It's comparable to Sunbittern or Shoebill. We don't need to say American Sunbittern or Common Shoebill, just like we don't need to say Crested Shrike-jay, because there are no other shrike-jays. Bonus is that if somewhere down the line the species gets split, you can just go with Northern Shrike-jay and not have an even longer name like Northern Crested Shrike-jay.
 

James Jobling

Well-known member
I agree that Shrike-jay, without a modifier, is better, as it reflects the former implied relationships of this bird. It will be interesting to read how Platylophidae of Winkler, Billerman & Lovette (2015), Bird Families of the World, p. 381, does not comply with the Code.
 

Brian J Small

Well-known member
Are there any dna studies of Platylophus galericulatus? Having heard them in peninsular Malaysia and in Sabah, Borneo, with a seeming slight difference in the call, I wondered if this is backed up...

In Malaysia call seemes slower; on Borneo faster and drier. Recordings on ebird suggest c. 10-11 notes p/s on Malaysia (Crested Shrikejay Macaulay Library ML252779791) compared with 18-20 p/s on Borneo (Crested Shrikejay Macaulay Library ML36827)

Brian
 

l_raty

laurent raty
It will be interesting to read how Platylophidae of Winkler, Billerman & Lovette (2015), Bird Families of the World, p. 381, does not comply with the Code.
It was not flagged as intentionally new.

How do you get rid of Kaup's name, Jimmy? It has precedence and can't be made a nomen oblitum with respect to a name proposed less than 10 years ago.
 

James Eaton

Trent Valley Crew
Are there any dna studies of Platylophus galericulatus? Having heard them in peninsular Malaysia and in Sabah, Borneo, with a seeming slight difference in the call, I wondered if this is backed up...

In Malaysia call seemes slower; on Borneo faster and drier. Recordings on ebird suggest c. 10-11 notes p/s on Malaysia (Crested Shrikejay Macaulay Library ML252779791) compared with 18-20 p/s on Borneo (Crested Shrikejay Macaulay Library ML36827)

Brian
Brian, I think it's more to do with how excited the bird is, ie, is it in response to playback - I've got a few recordings from Borneo and Peninsular Malaysia that overlap. For example, here are some from Borneo (Sabah) that are 12n/s: XC430849 Crested Jay (Platylophus galericulatus), XC92626 Crested Jay (Platylophus galericulatus)
and XC29926 Crested Jay (Platylophus galericulatus). Nominate on Java also appears to overlap in call.
However, I think the machine-gun rattle is just the contact call. The true song is an odd, fluty whistle, that I transcribe as something like "pSSS see-woo" - I only hear it occasionally.

I agree with Markus, given the taxonomic affinities of the bird, Jay Shrike (or Jayshrike) makes far more sense than XXX-Jay, given it's most certainly not a jay.

James
 

Brian J Small

Well-known member
Brian, I think it's more to do with how excited the bird is, ie, is it in response to playback - I've got a few recordings from Borneo and Peninsular Malaysia that overlap. For example, here are some from Borneo (Sabah) that are 12n/s: XC430849 Crested Jay (Platylophus galericulatus), XC92626 Crested Jay (Platylophus galericulatus)
and XC29926 Crested Jay (Platylophus galericulatus). Nominate on Java also appears to overlap in call.
However, I think the machine-gun rattle is just the contact call. The true song is an odd, fluty whistle, that I transcribe as something like "pSSS see-woo" - I only hear it occasionally.

I agree with Markus, given the taxonomic affinities of the bird, Jay Shrike (or Jayshrike) makes far more sense than XXX-Jay, given it's most certainly not a jay.

James
Thanks James

Brian
 

Jim LeNomenclatoriste

Taxonomy and zoological nomenclature
France
It is an unnecessary junior synonym that cannot be used.
Lophocitteae is unquestionably NOT a genus-group name. (I find it rather extraordinary that I get thanked for an interpretation with which I never agreed.)
☹️ ☹️
I believe there will always be disagreement as to the status of Lophocitteae 😢 And unfortunately I do not know the opinions of Norbert Bahr and Neal Evenhuis 🤷 Maybe they were of the same opinion as you.
 

l_raty

laurent raty
"Hauptgenus" / "Gruppe" (Kaup used both words to denote the rank at which he introduced Lophocitteae) is not a rank recognised by the Code (a genus-group name is a uninominal name used at the rank of genus or subgenus, and no others; if a name is proposed for a division within a genus, it is to be deemed proposed at subgenus rank, whatever the name the author gave to the division -- cf. Art. 10.4 of the ICZN)).

Lophocitteae was formed from the stem of a genus-group name, with the addition of a plural suffix (one that was extremely widely used for the family-group rank below subfamily at that time -- i.e., that must be read as equivalent to the current -ini), and it was introduced by Kaup at a rank that was clearly suprageneric (for one of 5 subdivisions in a subfamily, which all received names with identical endings, some of which explicitly included several genera -- how Kaup called this rank is irrelevant), ergo, it meets the requirements of Art. 11.7.1 of the ICZN, and is available as a family-group name.
.
I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no room for any lasting "disagreement" on the above.

The correct name of the family (now and at least for the 10 years to come) is Lophocittidae.
 
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George Sangster

Active member
Kaup's use of the term Hauptgenus clearly indicates that he used the name as a genus-group name and not as a family-group name. It is right there in the name itself: Hauptgenus. It is quite a stretch to interpret a Hauptgenus as a family-group name. In any case, the German term Hauptgenus is best translated as supergenus, which is a valid rank.
 

l_raty

laurent raty
In any case, the German term Hauptgenus is best translated as supergenus, which is a valid rank.
Supergenus is absolutely not a rank in the genus group recognized by the Code (again, only genus and subgenus are, nothing else); see Art. 42.1.
See also Art. 35.1: "The family group encompasses all nominal taxa at the ranks of superfamily, family, subfamily, tribe, subtribe, and any other rank below superfamily and above genus that may be desired".
If it's above genus, it's not in the genus-group; it's in the family group. (Or still higher.)
 
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l_raty

laurent raty
FWIW, here is a list of the names that are genus-group names inflected in one way or another in the source claimed by Bock 1994 for the corresponding family-group name, that should in principle be complete:
These were unmodified genus-group names (in the nominative singular) in Bock's claimed sources:
 
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jts1882

Well-known member
United Kingdom
IOC Taxonomy Update [link]

Platylophus galericulatusCrested Jay (Crested Jayshrike)Move from Family Corvidae to newly recognized Family PlatylophidaeTAX, PHYRecent phylogenetic analyses have shown that Platylophus is not a true corvid (Corvidae), but rather has an unsettled position within the Corvoidea radiation (Jønsson et al. 2008, Aggerbeck et al. 2014, Winkler et al. 2015; Oliveros et al. 2019; Jønsson et al. 2011; Jønsson et al. 2016, Fuchs et al. 2019; Stervander et al. 2020). Best placed in its own family Platylophidae which has been recently formally described (Gaudin et al. 2021). However, an alternate name for this family, Lophocittidae, may have precedence depending on whether Lophocitteae Kaup, 1855 is interpreted as having been originally introduced as a family-group name or as a genus-group name (Gaudin et al. 2021; Raty in litt. 9/10/21, Bird Forum Crested Jay).
 
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Colombia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Colombia

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