Crossbill sp (1 Viewer)

[shorebirder]

Have a look at this guys and let me know your thoughs.
Dave

 

[Peewit]

I would say a Female Common Crossbill comes to mind.

 

[shorebirder]

crossbill sp

Very poor shot of male, only shot I got before they flew off. Thought they looked quiet large billed.

 

[Fast_falkon]

Looks like a parrot to me.. bill is larger than i'd expect at a common..
Where was it taken??

 

[Ian Hamiltan]

bill looks very heavy to me so how about a parrot crossbill

 

[shorebirder]

Taken in North Yorkshire today, unfortunately did not hang around long enough to get better photos. Looked bigger billed than others seen in same area.
Any more comments appreciated.
Dave

 

[StuartReeves]

That male looks very big-billed, and I could easily be persuaded that it is a Parrot Crossbill. When and where were the photos taken?

EDIT : I see my question about location was answered while I was posting.

 

[Lawts]

Taken in North Yorkshire today, unfortunately did not hang around long enough to get better photos. Looked bigger billed than others seen in same area.
Any more comments appreciated.
Dave

Dave there would be a lot of interest from Yorkshire listers if these are Parrots. Are you able/prepared to be more specific about the location?

 

[eagle33]

After tripping up myself on birds like this in cumbria, i woud say they are both Common Crossbill, the head shape of a Parrot Crossbill would stand out a mile. Lower mandible seems too long for parrot.

 

[Dougie Preston]

Agreed, esp the female. Male pic is a bit fuzzy to tell.

 

[njlarsen]

Pro parrot: the upper mandible looks like it is an extension of the crown

Con: the bill is significantly longer than high and the upper mandible extends beyond the lower.

In my mind, overall con beats pro.

Niels

 

[StuartReeves]

After tripping up myself on birds like this in cumbria, i woud say they are both Common Crossbill, the head shape of a Parrot Crossbill would stand out a mile. Lower mandible seems too long for parrot.

While it is entirely possible that I am wrong, surely it's more a matter of mandible depth than length? Parrot actually has a slightly longer bill than Common.

 

[griffin]

Both are Common types.

Lindsay

 

[Edward woodwood]

the bill on the female lacks the bulge on the lower mandible that Parrot shows

Linz, are Parrots not usually a bit 'greyer' too? And with a different (brighter, more crimson?) red?

 

[griffin]

While it is entirely possible that I am wrong, surely it's more a matter of mandible depth than length? Parrot actually has a slightly longer bill than Common.

It may do, but the depth will be proportionate to this (the length) and in parrot tends to give the bill a 'square' appearance.

The male above reminds me of the dubious male bird that I had on my blog some time ago (deleted by hackers !) that quite a few people thought was Scottish, but in fact it was (biggish) Common - in the hand it's bill depth was 11.2mm and it gave Fc4 on release. The culmen was more downcurved than normal for a curvirostra. Photo below.

For me the Yorkie bird's culmen is not nearly downcurved enough for Parrot and is similar to the Deeside bird I refer too. It is worth remembering Dick Forsmans advice on Parrot Crossbill identification in the field - the bill can actually appear small in proportion to the really large head ! I think you too have noted the importance of head size in crossers before Stuart ? I tend to do it on body size in flight - 5-7g is a big difference between Common and Parrot, with scotica more like Common.

To the photographer, if you were that close get some calls - then we will know for sure !

Lindsay

 

[StuartReeves]

I think you too have noted the importance of head size in crossers before Stuart ? I tend to do it on body size in flight - 5-7g is a big difference between Common and Parrot, with scotica more like Common.

To the photographer, if you were that close get some calls - then we will know for sure !

Lindsay

True Lindsay, but that's in the field, not working from photographs which is an entirely different ball game. It's also been a long time since I got to study any crossbills in detail!

 

[shorebirder]

Thanks for all comments. After looking at several photographs and reading your comments, tend to agree that the females bill shape is perhaps not correct for parrot, not appearing square enough, being rather elongated. Male unfortunately did not come to this side of the mound at all so I could not get better shots. The whole event only lasted maybe a minute so no time to study the birds really. Both flew into nearby tree then 20 seconds later a group of 15-20 crossbills left the trees calling briefly. Windy conditions and brevity meant that calls not heard too well, different calls were audible but nothing too definite to comment on.
Will try again this week to see if birds still around (bit of a needle in a haystack though).

Crossbills (we love em!!!)
Dave

 

[Capercaillie71]

The male above reminds me of the dubious male bird that I had on my blog some time ago (deleted by hackers !) that quite a few people thought was Scottish, but in fact it was (biggish) Common - in the hand it's bill depth was 11.2mm and it gave Fc4 on release. The culmen was more downcurved than normal for a curvirostra.

There is a photo of an Fc4 (Glip) in the 'Sound Approach' which seems to have quite a deep bill (similar to the first bird in this thread) which is also referred to in the text.

 

[griffin]

tend to agree that the females bill shape is perhaps not correct for parrot, not appearing square enough, being rather elongated. Male unfortunately did not come to this side of the mound at all so I could not get better shots.....

Crossbills (we love em!!!)
Dave

Dave, OFI what were they doing on when they were on the ground ? Were they drinking or gritting or was the female collecting grass for a nest ?

Here is a really crap piccie of a male Parrot in October 2006 in a similar context just to convince you that yours is not one !

Cheers,


Lindsay

 

[shorebirder]

griffin
female at pond first then picking up possibly grit from heap. No sign of nest material gathering. Hardly saw male as you can gather from photo.
Thanks for responces 'always a learning curve'
Dave