Death Of The Alpha? (1 Viewer)

[[email protected]]

When it comes to binoculars, we're all just looking for answers.

Is that Troub in the middle?:-O

 

[Troubador]

Is that Troub in the middle?:-O

Put your alpha spectacles on Dennis, thats me on the right!

Told you about those cut-price, middle of the road optical devices: they damage your vision.

Enough! Its been fun. And Dennis, your original question was a fair one and while we all agree how improved the mid-priced bins have become and are certainly the best value for money: alphas aren't going to die tomorrow or the next day.
Merry Christmas Den.

Lee

 

[Theo98]

Is that Troub in the middle?:-O

Of course not, Dennis...it is I! 8-P

Enough! Its been fun. And Dennis, your original question was a fair one and while we all agree how improved the mid-priced bins have become and are certainly the best value for money: alphas aren't going to die tomorrow or the next day....Merry Christmas Den.
Lee

:t:

A Blessed Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Vesākha celebrations to All!

Ted

 

[[email protected]]

Put your alpha spectacles on Dennis, thats me on the right!

Told you about those cut-price, middle of the road optical devices: they damage your vision.

Enough! Its been fun. And Dennis, your original question was a fair one and while we all agree how improved the mid-priced bins have become and are certainly the best value for money: alphas aren't going to die tomorrow or the next day.
Merry Christmas Den.

Lee

Merry Christmas to you too. Promise me you will try a Maven or Trac Toric sometime in the future. I would love to hear your opinion of them.

 

[[email protected]]

Of course not, Dennis...it is I! 8-P

:t:

A Blessed Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Vesākha celebrations to All!

Ted

Reeeeeaaaaally?

 

[CliveP]

I guess we argue ... because somehow we care about this silliness?

Light therapy perhaps. At least it's passion about something.

I have alpha eyes with the aid of a good bin and perhaps (well some of us) should appreciate those dedicated capitalists in China (at least they have work) in providing some us with some pretty good toys.

Yes it's Christmas and I'm exploring the effect of Spiced Run with cold vanilla coffee and so far so good :t:

Tomorrow hit the trail for a bit hopefully. I'm thinking M7 10x30. Sorry but I ditched the "alphas" some time ago though they were pretty decent bins no doubt.

I would in fact say Europe is Dead! but long may those pensions, government scams, lawyers for immigrant human rights cases, international aid, etc fork out, NOT!!!

Oh and Iggy Pop 6 Music Xmas show. Keep on keeping on (so a neighbour used to say).

 

[Troubador]

Merry Christmas to you too. Promise me you will try a Maven or Trac Toric sometime in the future. I would love to hear your opinion of them.

And I would love to try them Den.
Maybe they will put in an appearance at next year's Bird Fair.

Lee

 

[CliveP]

Happy Xmas The Typo 8-P

I see you baby.

Ok I'm somewhat inebriated lets say. night all. I'm kicking me off this keyboard right now god dammit.

 

[SuperDuty]

Somewhat ? :-O

Ok I'm somewhat inebriated

 

[[email protected]]

How many of you alpha lovers out there have given a Maven or Trac Toric a try? A few of you have but I don't think a large percentage has. I think there is a natural resistance to trying an unknown brand and I can understand that. I feel if more people try them they would not feel a need anymore to buy an alpha binocular. How many of you have really tried them?

 

[etudiant]

How many of you alpha lovers out there have given a Maven or Trac Toric a try? A few of you have but I don't think a large percentage has. I think there is a natural resistance to trying an unknown brand and I can understand that. I feel if more people try them they would not feel a need anymore to buy an alpha binocular. How many of you have really tried them?

Dennis,
I appreciate your desire to inform and accept that the Tract may be a very good optics value. Sadly, that does not make it an alpha.

We know from experience that firms in optics come and go, think Swift or Sears or even a manufacturer such as Bausch and Lomb.
Alpha status reflects staying power, the ability to remain active even when times are very tough. Leica could doubtless write a book about the perils of the business of optics technology also, but they survived and continue to service customers products properly. That is what makes an alpha, at least imho.

 

[marinemaster]

Dennis,

I appreciate your desire to inform and accept that the Tract may be a very good optics value. Sadly, that does not make it an alpha.



We know from experience that firms in optics come and go, think Swift or Sears or even a manufacturer such as Bausch and Lomb.

Alpha status reflects staying power, the ability to remain active even when times are very tough. Leica could doubtless write a book about the perils of the business of optics technology also, but they survived and continue to service customers products properly. That is what makes an alpha, at least imho.

+1

 

[[email protected]]

+1

"Alpha status reflects staying power, the ability to remain active even when times are very tough. Leica could doubtless write a book about the perils of the business of optics technology also, but they survived and continue to service customers products properly. That is what makes an alpha, at least imho."

So if a company can hang around through the tough times that makes them an alpha. To me an alpha is fantastic optical performance and superior build quality and excellent customer service and a solid lifetime warranty where they will immediately replace your binocular if anything happens to it , whereas, Leica has spotty customer service and may take weeks or months for a repair. These new direct marketed companies like Tract and Maven are no Sears, Swift or Bausch and Lomb. They are totally different. Try talking to somebody at Leica that actually has a stake in the company like Maven. The owners of Maven will actually spend time with you on the phone talking to you about your binocular and they aren't some technician that knows little about optics. There is a big advantage dealing with a small direct marketed company like Maven versus a big corporation like Leica or Zeiss. You cut through all the red tape and get right to the owners who reside in Lander, Wyoming not Germany or Austria. These new direct marketers like Maven and Tract are giving you a fantastic binocular that does not take a back seat to any alpha for 1/2 the price because they don't have countless layers of middleman to pay. Your getting the same quality of binocular as an alpha just for less money. Have you tried a Tract or a Maven at all?

 

[Chosun Juan]

Dennis, no amount of trying these bins is going to make them Alpha class.

The Maven B2 9x45 counter clockwise to infinity focus kills it for me straight off the bat. Why when the convention for all other Alphas is to go CW would you make your design go in the opposite direction? Crazy town. Granted this may annoy some less than others. It's also too heavy (by at least 100 - 200grams) to be cutting edge. Then there are questions about CA handling and where it ranks in the pack.

The format innovation though - big tick, same for the A-K brightness.

The Tract Toric 8x42 with its straw like 59° AFov is never going to cut it. It is firmly 2nd tier. I suppose we could run an interesting book on how long until that restrictive Fov drives you bananas to the point that you can no longer live with it and under the bus it goes! :eek!:

That said there is remarkable similarity in the optical specs of the 8x42 Tract Toric, Vortex Razor HD, Maven B1, and Zeiss Conquest HD .... All Kamakura ....

Again, I applaud the direct to the consumer business model and the savings and lower price this offers (well at least for the Tract .... A 2nd tier bin for $650 is far preferable to essentially the same thing at $900 or $1000 :t:

Better performance, competition, and lower prices is certainly good for consumers at that level, and the market overall, as the Alpha top dawgs are forced to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, and pushed to move the game on within the existing muggles tech paradigm, and address those incremental optical gains and the significant weight reduction opportunities that advanced materials engineering offers. New additive manufacturing methods will see costs plummet too, thus keeping the whole improved show afloat .....

I rang my bookie and tried to get a bet on for when Dennis ditches the straw-like Toric .... The odds offered where woeful, and apparently there is a $1 bet limit!! :-O https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UklHiym5yvk


Chosun :gh:

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis, no amount of trying these bins is going to make them Alpha class.

The Maven B2 9x45 counter clockwise to infinity focus kills it for me straight off the bat. Why when the convention for all other Alphas is to go CW would you make your design go in the opposite direction? Crazy town. Granted this may annoy some less than others. It's also too heavy (by at least 100 - 200grams) to be cutting edge. Then there are questions about CA handling and where it ranks in the pack.

The format innovation though - big tick, same for the A-K brightness.

The Tract Toric 8x42 with its straw like 59° AFov is never going to cut it. It is firmly 2nd tier. I suppose we could run an interesting book on how long until that restrictive Fov drives you bananas to the point that you can no longer live with it and under the bus it goes! :eek!:

That said there is remarkable similarity in the optical specs of the 8x42 Tract Toric, Vortex Razor HD, Maven B1, and Zeiss Conquest HD .... All Kamakura ....

Again, I applaud the direct to the consumer business model and the savings and lower price this offers (well at least for the Tract .... A 2nd tier bin for $650 is far preferable to essentially the same thing at $900 or $1000 :t:

Better performance, competition, and lower prices is certainly good for consumers at that level, and the market overall, as the Alpha top dawgs are forced to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, and pushed to move the game on within the existing muggles tech paradigm, and address those incremental optical gains and the significant weight reduction opportunities that advanced materials engineering offers. New additive manufacturing methods will see costs plummet too, thus keeping the whole improved show afloat .....

I rang my bookie and tried to get a bet on for when Dennis ditches the straw-like Toric .... The odds offered where woeful, and apparently there is a $1 bet limit!! :-O https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UklHiym5yvk


Chosun :gh:

I found out something when I tried the Tract Toric 8x42 and the Maven B.2 9x45. You can's always judge a person by their looks and you also can't judge a binocular by it's specification's. I usually HATE a small FOV so when I ordered the Tract Toric 8x42 I purchased it from Amazon.com so it would be a painless return. I tried it on Gjraider's recommendation after his trip to Africa where he compared many binoculars. When I first tried it I was shocked. Even though the FOV on paper looks small the view is so sharp and the sweetspot is so big it really wasn't a deal killer. I know, I know you don't believe it. Neither did I. But Gjraider was right. This binocular in every way is the equal of alpha binoculars for way less money. Same way with the Maven B.2 9x45. The Swarovski 10x50 SV is a great binocular but overall I preferred the Maven B.2 9x45 over it. Now that is saying a lot! You really have to TRY them yourself to see what I am talking about. I would NOT have started a "Death of the Alpha" thread if I didn't believe it take my word for it.

 

[CliveP]

Morning all. Did I mention alchohol and I don't mix? 8-P
Thank goodness for Codeine and some clear air to come shortly.

The point about the narrow fov reminds me of the Hawke ED 8x56 I once had with only a 108m fov and yet I had the most magical views with it many many times. I had actually bought it while having my Leica repaired and in thinking of the two now the 8x56 actually did give me more joy though no denying the 108m was on the narrow side and my Leica HD was only 10x32. I got to try a Swaro 8x56 briefly with 122m I think and that was really great but bulkier with less close focus ability than the Hawke version.

Anyhow I would say Dennis could well have a point. That 8x56 is still one of my favourite bins ever. At the same time I sold my 8x56 when I got the wider fov Hawke Sapphire ED 8x43 but it lacked whatever that magic was of the 8x56. I went for the wide fov more for practicality than wonderful view although this update Sapphire I have now is better so it would be more of a close thing.

So is it an alpha? I dunno, who cares, but does it give alpha comparative or even better enjoyment. I could well believe this could be the case although I never liked that Nikon EII which a lot of folks including Dennis used to rave about. I still don't get that one? but this Tract I would probably get and the Maven also.

Now Dennis, don't you damn well turn around and ditch these bins, at least for a few weeks until this dies down :-O8-P:eek!:

How much are you looking for them just out of interest?

 

[Troubador]

Dennis, no amount of trying these bins is going to make them Alpha class.

The Maven B2 9x45 counter clockwise to infinity focus kills it for me straight off the bat. Why when the convention for all other Alphas is to go CW would you make your design go in the opposite direction? Crazy town. Granted this may annoy some less than others. It's also too heavy (by at least 100 - 200grams) to be cutting edge. Then there are questions about CA handling and where it ranks in the pack.

The format innovation though - big tick, same for the A-K brightness.

The Tract Toric 8x42 with its straw like 59° AFov is never going to cut it. It is firmly 2nd tier. I suppose we could run an interesting book on how long until that restrictive Fov drives you bananas to the point that you can no longer live with it and under the bus it goes! :eek!:

That said there is remarkable similarity in the optical specs of the 8x42 Tract Toric, Vortex Razor HD, Maven B1, and Zeiss Conquest HD .... All Kamakura ....

Again, I applaud the direct to the consumer business model and the savings and lower price this offers (well at least for the Tract .... A 2nd tier bin for $650 is far preferable to essentially the same thing at $900 or $1000 :t:

Better performance, competition, and lower prices is certainly good for consumers at that level, and the market overall, as the Alpha top dawgs are forced to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, and pushed to move the game on within the existing muggles tech paradigm, and address those incremental optical gains and the significant weight reduction opportunities that advanced materials engineering offers. New additive manufacturing methods will see costs plummet too, thus keeping the whole improved show afloat .....

I rang my bookie and tried to get a bet on for when Dennis ditches the straw-like Toric .... The odds offered where woeful, and apparently there is a $1 bet limit!! :-O https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UklHiym5yvk


Chosun :gh:

:t::t::t:

Lee

 

[Torview]

I`m now confused, this thread is "Death of the Alpha", but according to Dennis the Tract and Maven is "Alpha", so are they doomed ?

Think I`ll stick with my endangered Swaro`s and Leica for now, or it`d be like jumping out of the frying pan into..........................!

 

[Iceberg slim]

He is either on a nice retainer, or thoroughly believes his mantra, fair play, but i think trying to convince the 'Alpha' users there is a new new or equal 'Alpha' on the block, well he must be... "Charlie-Romeo-Alpha-Zulu-Yankee " 8-P

 

[SuperDuty]

Is there a timeline on when the big three will start the phasing out process ? :smoke: :-O