• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    Register for an account to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia

Difficulty Bonding with 8x32 EL (1 Viewer)

gwlee

Active member
I bought a new 8x32EL FP about a year ago to use for observing wildlife and terrain features while hiking and cycling near my home in the mountains near Yosemite National Park, but we are not bonding well. It was intended to replace a Nikon 8x42 Premier that I have used for about 10 years, which replaced a Nikon 8x42 LXL that I also used for the previous 10 years.

I really like the 8x32 EL‘s size and weight, diopter adjustment mechanism, objective covers, eyepiece cover, it’s sharpness, the way it fits my hands, and the fact that my index finger doesn’t naturally line up with the focuser, so I must reach for it. The focuser is just OK. For the first time, I have seen the “rolling ball” effect, which I initially found unpleasant. I find the Field Pro strap system a bit goofy, a solution in search of a problem, so I use a conventional binocular strap and suffer with the rotating attachment points. No serious problems here and a lot more to like.

Unfortunately, I find looking through this binocular uncomfortable. IPD range is more than enough, but it must be set perfectly, and what’s “perfect“ seems to change with time and the distance to the object being observed. There doesn’t seem to be any combination of IPD and eyecup height that’s really comfortable, so I am not using it much.

Normally, I wouldn’t have bought a binocular without trying it in a brick & mortar store, but that wasn’t possible during the pandemic, and the binocular seems to be well regarded among birders, so I took a chance. As far as I can tell, there’s nothing wrong with the binocular. It seems to be an excellent binocular that’s just a poor fit for my eyes.

Although all of my binoculars have a specified eye relief of 20mm to allow using eyeglasses to correct for astigmatism, the EL seems to have the least ER, but I suspect my biggest problem is adjusting to the 4mm exit pupil. My other three binoculars (42mm and 50mm) which I use for watching critters and stargazing, are very comfortable and have exit pupils from 5 to 7mm and magnification from 7x to 10x.

Has anyone encountered a similar problem adjusting to the 8x32 EL or other binocular with a 4mm exit pupil? Any other ideas about what might be causing the problem before I find a new home for this binocular?
 
Last edited:

BabyDov

Well-known member
Supporter
United States
Be sure your IPD is not set too narrow. I know you said you have tried different IPD distances, but try setting the IPD to just where the images for each eyes just begin to merge into one, when moving the barrels inward from their widest apart position. Don't set the IPD any narrower than that even though the set images from each side still seem like one. As far as the eye cup adjustment is concerned, 18 mm of eye ER should be enough for anyone, except for people with extremely thick frames or lenses with prisms. Start with the eyecups all the way in, if you think you might need the maximum ER with your glasses, but see if there are any blackouts in that position, when you are panning. If there are any panning blackouts, move the eye cups gradually outward, until you don't get blackouts. For me, it was a couple of clicks out, but my glasses are extremely light and thin.
 

gwlee

Active member
Be sure your IPD is not set too narrow. I know you said you have tried different IPD distances, but try setting the IPD to just where the images for each eyes just begin to merge into one, when moving the barrels inward from their widest apart position. Don't set the IPD any narrower than that even though the set images from each side still seem like one. As far as the eye cup adjustment is concerned, 18 mm of eye ER should be enough for anyone, except for people with extremely thick frames or lenses with prisms. Start with the eyecups all the way in, if you think you might need the maximum ER with your glasses, but see if there are any blackouts in that position, when you are panning. If there are any panning blackouts, move the eye cups gradually outward, until you don't get blackouts. For me, it was a couple of clicks out, but my glasses are extremely light and thin.
“I know you said you have tried different IPD distances, but try setting the IPD to just where the images for each eyes just begin to merge into one, when moving the barrels inward from their widest apart position. Don't set the IPD any narrower than that even though the set images from each side still seem like one.”

Thank you. I will try setting the IPD using the procedure you suggested to see if that helps. I have the eyecups set one position up from full down that seems to enough eye relief for my eyeglasses, but the setting is notably less than I use with my other binocular. Any less ER, I get blackouts; any more, I can’t see the full FOV.

I can’t pinpoint the reason this binocular is so uncomfortable for me, but I suspect it might be the interplay of 2 factors with the 4mm EP being the major one. From using binoculars with wide exit pupils for over 50 years, up to 7mm, I am accustomed holding my face and binocular steady and allowing my eyes to roam around the FOV to drink in the scene without encountering the edge of the EP. However, none of my other binoculars has a FOV greater than 7.5*. The EL has an 8* FOV, and I suspect the need to look over a wider field while looking through a narrower exit pupil is causing the problem, but it’s just a guess.

I use 7x50 (7mm EP) and 10x50 (5mm EP) porros for astronomy. Both are comfortable, but I prefer 7x50 for very long observing sessions because it seems a little more comfortable, and I suspect a 4mm EP might be the tipping point were the exit becomes uncomfortable for me.
 

Maljunulo

Well-known member
For what little it may be worth, I too use a glass with a 4 mm exit pupil. At first it was noticeably fussier than the glass it replaced, but I just kept fiddling with and have adapted to each other.

I can't look around the field as easily without "kidney beans" as I could in the 4.2 mm predecessor.

Try to work it out between the two of you, because you have an excellent glass there, and it is a shame to be unhappy with it.

Good luck.

(a year seems along time to have these problems)
 

gwlee

Active member
For what little it may be worth, I too use a glass with a 4 mm exit pupil. At first it was noticeably fussier than the glass it replaced, but I just kept fiddling with and have adapted to each other.

I can't look around the field as easily without "kidney beans" as I could in the 4.2 mm predecessor.

Try to work it out between the two of you, because you have an excellent glass there, and it is a shame to be unhappy with it.

Good luck.

(a year seems along time to have these problems)
In hindsight, I probably should have just returned it a year ago, but it’s a nice binocular and I thought I might adjust to it in time, but that hasn’t happened, so I am going to try a few things suggested here before I find a new home for it.

I think binoculars are a bit like shoes. If there’s any doubt whatsoever about whether they fit, they don’t.
 

gwlee

Active member
Be sure your IPD is not set too narrow. I know you said you have tried different IPD distances, but try setting the IPD to just where the images for each eyes just begin to merge into one, when moving the barrels inward from their widest apart position. Don't set the IPD any narrower than that even though the set images from each side still seem like one. As far as the eye cup adjustment is concerned, 18 mm of eye ER should be enough for anyone, except for people with extremely thick frames or lenses with prisms. Start with the eyecups all the way in, if you think you might need the maximum ER with your glasses, but see if there are any blackouts in that position, when you are panning. If there are any panning blackouts, move the eye cups gradually outward, until you don't get blackouts. For me, it was a couple of clicks out, but my glasses are extremely light and thin.
BabyDov,

I have been trying your suggestions about setting 8x32 EL’s IPD this afternoon, and my first impression is that it’s a better procedure for this binocular than I have been using.

From outside my expected IPD, I normally decrease IPD until I pass through the sweet spot and then reverse direction until I returned to the sweet spot. It’s a continuous motion that only takes a couple of seconds, and works fine the larger exit pupil binoculars that I am accustomed to using.

Today instead, from outside IPD, I decreased IPD until the first instant the blackouts disappeared. Then, I used the binocular to observe normally for a few minutes while looking for the slightest indication of a blackout. when, I noticed one, I decreased IPD by the smallest possible amount and resumed observing normally while remaining alert for any hint of a blackout. After several such adjustments and retests, I saw no evidence of blackouts and declared the IPD set.

In today’s experiment, all the adjustment motion was decreasing. I never obviously passed through the sweet spot or reversed direction and completing the procedure took minutes rather than seconds. In using the binocular for the remainder of afternoon it seemed a bit more comfortable although it’s possible some of the perceived improvement was due to the placebo effect. Time will tell. Thanks again for your suggestions.

I am beginning to think that getting the best out of this binocular and meeting my goals for it might require me to consciously change some my normal observing procedures. For example, I am accustomed to holding a binocular still and moving my eyes to scan its field of view. This small exit pupil binocular seems to work better if I pan the binocular a bit to examine its 8* FOV while keeping my eyes centered. Otherwise, I get partial blackouts.
 

gwlee

Active member
For what little it may be worth, I too use a glass with a 4 mm exit pupil. At first it was noticeably fussier than the glass it replaced, but I just kept fiddling with and have adapted to each other.

I can't look around the field as easily without "kidney beans" as I could in the 4.2 mm predecessor.

Try to work it out between the two of you, because you have an excellent glass there, and it is a shame to be unhappy with it.

Good luck.

(a year seems along time to have these problems)
It sounds like we are describing a similar experience to which you have made an more successful adjustment. After 50+ years behind a 7x50, I should have expected a more difficult adjustment going to an 8x32 than I experienced going to an 8x42. Guess I need to reset my expectations and redouble my efforts before abandoning it. Thanks for your insight.
 

BabyDov

Well-known member
Supporter
United States
BabyDov,

I have been trying your suggestions about setting 8x32 EL’s IPD this afternoon, and my first impression is that it’s a better procedure for this binocular than I have been using.

From outside my expected IPD, I normally decrease IPD until I pass through the sweet spot and then reverse direction until I returned to the sweet spot. It’s a continuous motion that only takes a couple of seconds, and works fine the larger exit pupil binoculars that I am accustomed to using.

Today instead, from outside IPD, I decreased IPD until the first instant the blackouts disappeared. Then, I used the binocular to observe normally for a few minutes while looking for the slightest indication of a blackout. when, I noticed one, I decreased IPD by the smallest possible amount and resumed observing normally while remaining alert for any hint of a blackout. After several such adjustments and retests, I saw no evidence of blackouts and declared the IPD set.

In today’s experiment, all the adjustment motion was decreasing. I never obviously passed through the sweet spot or reversed direction and completing the procedure took minutes rather than seconds. In using the binocular for the remainder of afternoon it seemed a bit more comfortable although it’s possible some of the perceived improvement was due to the placebo effect. Time will tell. Thanks again for your suggestions.

I am beginning to think that getting the best out of this binocular and meeting my goals for it might require me to consciously change some my normal observing procedures. For example, I am accustomed to holding a binocular still and moving my eyes to scan its field of view. This small exit pupil binocular seems to work better if I pan the binocular a bit to examine its 8* FOV while keeping my eyes centered. Otherwise, I get partial blackouts.
Usually when adjusting the IPD, I find that the sweet spot is where 2 separate eye images just merge into one, when moving the barrels inward from the widest position. If at that point, with fast panning I am getting blackouts, I adjust the eye cups outward in small increments. Don't move the IPD anymore inward to eliminate blackouts, unless what you are calling blackouts is occurring when looking through them without panning.
 

gwlee

Active member
Usually when adjusting the IPD, I find that the sweet spot is where 2 separate eye images just merge into one, when moving the barrels inward from the widest position. If at that point, with fast panning I am getting blackouts, I adjust the eye cups outward in small increments. Don't move the IPD anymore inward to eliminate blackouts, unless what you are calling blackouts is occurring when looking through them without panning.
I am using the term, “Blackout”, loosely, and it might not be the best term to communicate what I am seeing and you can’t. In any case, whatever I did yesterday based on your suggestions still seems to be an improvement this morning in the cold light of day. I plan to leave the IPD setting alone for now and continue to use and evaluate the 8x32 EL for comfort today.

I also want to try your suggestions on my 8x42 today to see what I can learn. It’s a very comfortable and easy to use binocular that’s not at all fussy about IPD, but I might learn something that can be applied to the 8x32 EL.

I evaluated another high quality 8x32 about 10 years ago. I had it here for about 30 days and decided not to keep it, but I don’t remember having any comfort issues with that binocular, or it being particularly sensitive to IPD setting. I was in my 60s then and in my 70s now, so perhaps there’s been a change in my vision that’s causing my discomfort using the EL. These days, I often use an astronomical refractor with eyepieces giving a 4mm exit pupil without any difficulty. It’s a mystery.
 

Maljunulo

Well-known member
Single eyepiece instruments become more annoying as I get older.

The loss of the use of your signal combining and processing circuits in your brain when only using one eye bothers me a great deal, no matter which eye I use.

Two eyes used together are significantly better than one eye plus one eye.
 

BabyDov

Well-known member
Supporter
United States
There is no question that your eyes change as you age, particularly with your ability of your pupils to dilate, not to mention cataracts beginning to develop in your 70s. That certainly can affect your binocular use, particularly on overcast days. Obviously, this will be more apparent with a 32 mm objective than a larger one, but not so much on brighter days.
 

SeldomPerched

Well-known member
For what little it may be worth, I too use a glass with a 4 mm exit pupil. At first it was noticeably fussier than the glass it replaced, but I just kept fiddling with and have adapted to each other.

I can't look around the field as easily without "kidney beans" as I could in the 4.2 mm predecessor.

Try to work it out between the two of you, because you have an excellent glass there, and it is a shame to be unhappy with it.

Good luck.

(a year seems along time to have these problems)
I don't have any advice as you've already been given good advice, but I have been part of that way before. I hope you adjust to the smaller exit pupil.

Smaller exit pupils have at times caused me a bit of trouble. My first bin was an 8x20 and at the time I loved it. Then many years later I dared to buy an 8x42 and the view was so much easier that the 8x20 became almost unuseably fiddly to look through properly. And then a well-used but wonderful Dialyt 7x42 BG/AT*P* came to me from eBay and that was perfection and the 8x42, a much newer glass, seemed to lose some of its ease of viewing (I don't think it was as good a design anyway in that instance). The positive side is that I have since adapted to 8x32, the same EL F/P bin you are asking about. Not sure I'll ever adapt to 8x20 again though! So stick at it and good luck, as Maljunulo says.

Tom
 

NDhunter

Experienced observer
United States
Do you wear eyeglasses ? If so, I have maybe missed that. The Nikon 8x42 LX models are very easy to get behind, and
I suppose you may miss the easier comfort of that size. A 42 mm model will offer more viewing comfort.

I have examples of both of these, and I really like them, no issues for me at all.

Jerry
 

gwlee

Active member
Do you wear eyeglasses ? If so, I have maybe missed that. The Nikon 8x42 LX models are very easy to get behind, and
I suppose you may miss the easier comfort of that size. A 42 mm model will offer more viewing comfort.

I have examples of both of these, and I really like them, no issues for me at all.

Jerry
Yes, I have moderate astigmatism, so I need to wear eyeglasses when using my binoculars.

I hoped that the 8x32 EL could replace my 8x42 for all purposes except astronomy. I am using a 50mm porro as my primary astronomy binocular now, so thought I might get away with a 32mm roof for everything else, but after using the 8x32 EL for a year, I am not sure that’s going to work for me.

I had the LX for about ten years before it was stolen in a burglary. Then, I replaced it with the Premier, which is essentially the same binocular, and I have been using the Premier for about ten years now. My only complaint is its 7* FOV, and it seems to be gaining weight or the mountains are getting steeper.

At this point, I prefer 8x32 for watching wildlife and looking at terrain features while hiking and cycling in the mountains near my home because I am carrying the binocular more than I am looking through It. For observing wildlife near my home where I do a lot of looking and almost no carrying the 8x42 gets still gets the most use because it‘s so much more comfortable to look through for long observing sessions.

Getting the IPD adjusted perfectly seems to be a critical for my comfort. BabyDov made some good suggestions for setting the IPD that seem to help.
 

Maljunulo

Well-known member
Just for giggles, try the binoculars without your eyeglasses and see if all the problems but your astigmatism go away.

Could there be some sort of oddball interaction between binocular and eyeglasses?
 

gwlee

Active member
Just for giggles, try the binoculars without your eyeglasses and see if all the problems but your astigmatism go away.

Could there be some sort of oddball interaction between binocular and eyeglasses?
It’s possible. Hadn’t occurred to me. I will give it a try tomorrow.
 

bockos

Well-known member
Да, имам умерен астигматизъм, така че трябва да нося очила, когато използвам бинокъла си.

Надявах се, че 8x32 EL може да замени моя 8x42 за всички цели, с изключение на астрономията. Сега използвам 50-милиметров порро като основния си астрономически бинокъл, така че си помислих, че може да се измъкна с 32-милиметров покрив за всичко останало, но след като използвам 8x32 EL за една година, не съм сигурен, че това ще ми свърши работа.

Имах LX около десет години, преди да бъде откраднат при кражба с взлом. След това го замених с Premier, който по същество е същият бинокъл и използвам Premier от около десет години. Единственото ми оплакване е неговият 7 * FOV и изглежда наддава или планините стават все по-стръмни.

В този момент предпочитам 8x32 за гледане на дивата природа и разглеждане на характеристиките на терена, докато се разхождам и карам на колело в планината близо до дома си, защото носа бинокъла повече, въпреки че гледам. За наблюдение на дивата природа в близост до дома ми, където гледам много и почти не нося 8h42, още повече се използва най-много, защото е много удобно да се гледа през дългите сесии за наблюдение.

Перфектното адаптиране на IPD изглежда критично за моя комфорт. BabyDov прави няколко добри предложения за настройка на IPD, които изглеждат помагат.
Моят Swarovski 10x50 EL fieldpro ( Swarovski 10х50EL SER. NO. D872647652) също може да бъде откраднат. Съжалявам, че бинокълът ви беше откраднат.
 
Last edited:

tenex

reality-based
Bockos: "My Swarovski 10x50 EL fieldpro (Swarovski 10x50EL SER. NO. D872647652) can also be stolen. I'm sorry your binoculars were stolen. after I lost 10x50EL, I will buy NL Pure."

(I think Google had trouble with verb tenses there... "may also have been stolen"? Presumably that's in the past as he has the NL now.)
 

bockos

Well-known member
Бокос: "Моят Swarovski 10x50 EL fieldpro (Swarovski 10x50EL SER. NO. D872647652) също може да бъде откраднат. Съжалявам, че бинокълът ви беше откраднат. След като загубих 10x50EL, ще купя NL Pure."

(Мисля, че Google имаше проблеми с глаголните времена там ... „може и да е откраднато“? Вероятно това е в миналото, тъй като той има NL сега.)
Да. лоши хора ми взеха бинокъла от дома ми.
 
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia

Users who are viewing this thread

Top