Dodgy Stonechat sp., N Germany, 05/27/2018 (1 Viewer)

[Sangahyando]

I photographed this bird today in a spot in eastern Holstein where a Siberian Stonechat had been reported (on ornitho) over the last few days. The reason I still have lingering doubts about the ID (apart from not having seen S. maurus before), is that while the bird's ventral colouration fits well with the description in the Collins guide, its backside seemed fairly dark in the field, and the white on the rump, while definitely there, didn't seem as conspicuous as I'd expected. I do admit that it looks more Siberian on my pictures than it appeared through my bins in the field. It was paired with a female-type bird which looked like a regular European Stonechat. I also have a brief recording of the calls, but they sounded exactly like S. rubicola.

All images are heavily cropped for the usual reasons. As usual, feedback would be much appreciated.

- Andy

 

[CARERY]

I don't think the photos you provide are showing the crucial features good enough to ID it as maurus. As you know the variability of rubicula is large and e.g. around Rostock most of the males show an extensive white rump. But on photos (a bit less cropped than yours ) there are always some black tips... What about the underwing coverts and axillaris? Were they jet black? I suppose you know the excellent article of Hellström and Wærn? If not, here's the link:
https://britishbirds.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/V104_N05_P236%E2%80%93254_A.pdf

 

[Sangahyando]

I hadn't read that article before, thanks for sharing. Sadly, I didn't get sufficient views of the underwing, nor was I aware of the significance of their colouration. The rubbish takeoff shot I've uploaded above is the closest I got to an open-wing shot, and that was more unintentional than anything. I didn't notice dark tips on the upper tail coverts, but didn't get a good look of the rump in general.

Also, I couldn't find the pictures again that other people took of this bird on ornitho. IIRC there was at least one, but my search yesterday yielded nothing. So if any of those gentlemen are reading this, it would be great to upload those pics here for comparison.


edit: hold on, I've found some, but they were categorized as Saxicola rubicola [ssp.]. Kind of looks like the same bird (one of the shots is of the female, of which I also have a picture). Here's some examples, marked as "pallas type" by the photographers:

https://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=54&backlink=skip&mid=389166
https://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=54&backlink=skip&mid=389169
https://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=54&mid=388451
https://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=54&backlink=skip&mid=387990
https://www.ornitho.de/index.php?m_id=54&backlink=skip&mid=387995

 

[skbirder]

As Roland says, one would need to see the colouration of the underwing coverts and axillaries to move beyond presumed rubicola (on range) to putative maurus.

 

[Sangahyando]

As Roland says, one would need to see the colouration of the underwing coverts and axillaries to move beyond presumed rubicola (on range) to putative maurus.

The pictures I've linked to (pretty much guaranteed to be the same individual, as it's from the same site, where the bird has been continuously reported for a week) show one or two shots of the underwing. Unfortunately, I think you'd need to register on the site to view them; I can't post them here unless I get permission from the photographers (or they upload them on their own). I hope Roland and/or someone else will be able to view them.

 

[CARERY]

Yes I could take a look at the linked pictures. The one showing the rump quite good reveals that there are quite a few black spots - not visible in the blurred pictures in flight. Doesn't look good for maurus...

 

[Sangahyando]

Yes I could take a look at the linked pictures. The one showing the rump quite good reveals that there are quite a few black spots - not visible in the blurred pictures in flight. Doesn't look good for maurus...

And I was just getting used to the idea of a new lifer. :-C
Thank you both for the help, though :t: