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Does the Head Rest help on the NL 8x42? (1 Viewer)

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
To those who have the head rest does it help stabilize the view on the NL 8x42? I notice I still shake quite a bit even at 8x, and I was wondering if somebody had tried the Head Rest on the 8x42. I was wondering if I should try one or not. Thanks!
 
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John A Roberts

Well-known member
Australia
Hi Dennis,

I too am interested in hearing of user experiences with the FRP forehead rest

As yet the only comments I’ve seen are two brief ones by Erik Bakker on Cloudy Night, regarding astronomical use with a 10x42
See posts #137 and 142 in their main thread on the NL at: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/715099-a-new-swarovski-nl-pure/page-6

However, expectations need to be realistic:

. . . there will presumedly be marked differences between individuals


However, any increase will necessarily be limited, since it’s only establishing a better ‘weld’ between the binocular and the user’s face, i.e.
- an extra point of contact, and
- a greater area of contact

Unlike a Finn Stick (or even a mini version using a squeegee), it doesn't take any significant amount of the NL's weight off the arms
So while the binocular's fit to the face may be more solid, the effect of arm wobble will largely remain

But any support such as the FRP can be used additively e.g. combined with resting the binocular against a tree trunk, a post or the side of a wall
And I suspect that will best show the FRP's stability and convenience advantages, especially when used on the 12x42 NL


And for those who want to try out the idea, as mpeace has already illustrated you can easily cobble up your own test fixture - using a tripod mount and a block of wood!
from: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=4029501&postcount=563

I knocked together a head rest today to see what we can expect from the head rest on the NL. I fitted it to an SLC 15x56 and a Vortex Razor 10x42.

The added stabilization wasn't mind-blowing to be honest and about the same as techniques people use like a finger pressed against your forehead. So a slightly noticeable improvement, but certainly nothing like as good as powered image stabilized binoculars. The image is still shaky, just in a slightly different way that is a little less distracting.

So, I wouldn't get too excited about the head rest as the next big thing in stabilization. However after a couple of goes and with improved technique and getting used to the head support I think you are capable of holding the binoculars a little steadier and that encourages you to focus on things slightly longer.


John
 

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[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
From the Cloudy Nights thread it does sound like the Head Rest helps at 10x with comments by Erik Baker and responding to a question from Anders Asp. Impressive that he says the Head Rest closed the gap between the Canon IS 10x42 in stability by 3/4 but the NL had much better image quality.

"Last night I observed for the first time with my newly arrived FRP forehead rest with my NL 10x42 and what a difference that makes! Both observing standing and lying in a comfortable reclining chair, it closely resembled the stability of using a tripod, but without the hassle, with only a small loss in stability. And what a joy to take in these stable, high-quality images. A very simple but highly effective accessory for improving hand-held observing with the NL's."

"Erik, do you by any chance have the possibility to compare any Canon 10x42 IS binos with your Swarovski 10x42 NL Pure with FRP to see how well the Swarovski handles shakes and who of the two binos delivers the most pleasant views?
I'm thinking about maybe going for the 10x42 or 12x42 with an FRP if the support device really works in such a good way as people say and it really can deliver more or less the same stable views as an IS binocular."
Anders Asp

"No, I have not compared them, but did so with the EL 10x42. The EL had a nicer crisper view, but with more shake. Now with the FRP the gap in shake is about halfway to 3/4 closed, depending on how you use them and how high in the sky you observe. Image quality in the NL is better than the EL and much better than the Canon IS 10x42. Of the 10x and 12x NL models, the 10x is better, whereas the 12x is stretching the optics a bit far."
 
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ajfossey

Registered User
Supporter
Finally, I’ve now also received my FRP forehead rest. Several attempts at using this though not problematic left me really searching for a perceptible improvement. Perhaps it will be useful in the higher powers, but offered nothing useful in my opinion on the x8

From an posting of my own in the NL 8x42 thread, I found no noticeable improvement on my 8x42. Certainly not enough to persuade me to keep it attached.
 

Loddar

Well-known member
I ordered the frp together with the NL 8 to 42.
I think you just have to try out wheter it brings something.
Usually i like 7* and lighter bins. So i hope that it brings something for me.
 

Stanbo

Well-known member
I have age related shake and so l only use image stabilized binoculars. If someone gave me an NL it would be of little use to me.
It seems to me that asking someone else to describe the benefits of the the Swarovski head brace system would not be of much value unless you know the severity of that person's shake as well as your own. However, so far l have not been able to find a way of measuring shake, but l would be happy to hear from anybody who knows how to do it.
Stan
 

Whiterain

Well-known member
I have age related shake and so l only use image stabilized binoculars. If someone gave me an NL it would be of little use to me.
It seems to me that asking someone else to describe the benefits of the the Swarovski head brace system would not be of much value unless you know the severity of that person's shake as well as your own. However, so far l have not been able to find a way of measuring shake, but l would be happy to hear from anybody who knows how to do it.
Stan

Tape grid to wall, tape laser to binos, video record if necessary? If you wanted to get really geeky with it, you could use a program like LoggerPro as used in physics lab assignments that uses the video's frame rate to plot movement, velocity, etc. and can push that to a graph.
 
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bockos

Well-known member
From the Cloudy Nights thread it does sound like the Head Rest helps at 10x with comments by Erik Baker and responding to a question from Anders Asp. Impressive that he says the Head Rest closed the gap between the Canon IS 10x42 in stability by 3/4 but the NL had much better image quality.

"Last night I observed for the first time with my newly arrived FRP forehead rest with my NL 10x42 and what a difference that makes! Both observing standing and lying in a comfortable reclining chair, it closely resembled the stability of using a tripod, but without the hassle, with only a small loss in stability. And what a joy to take in these stable, high-quality images. A very simple but highly effective accessory for improving hand-held observing with the NL's."

"Erik, do you by any chance have the possibility to compare any Canon 10x42 IS binos with your Swarovski 10x42 NL Pure with FRP to see how well the Swarovski handles shakes and who of the two binos delivers the most pleasant views?
I'm thinking about maybe going for the 10x42 or 12x42 with an FRP if the support device really works in such a good way as people say and it really can deliver more or less the same stable views as an IS binocular."
Anders Asp

"No, I have not compared them, but did so with the EL 10x42. The EL had a nicer crisper view, but with more shake. Now with the FRP the gap in shake is about halfway to 3/4 closed, depending on how you use them and how high in the sky you observe. Image quality in the NL is better than the EL and much better than the Canon IS 10x42. Of the 10x and 12x NL models, the 10x is better, whereas the 12x is stretching the optics a bit far."

When I tried the three 8x42NL 10x42NL 12c42NL binoculars with the FRP forehead rest ... they were for me significantly more stable than the 10x50EL 8.5x 42EL 8x32EL 8x 56SLC (as well as the 15x56SLC 12c50 EL) each held by hand! For me, this is best done as hand binoculars. I will soon buy an NL Pure .... One thing is certain for me now: I would not buy binoculars in the future without a break on my foreheadFRP.
 

range

Well-known member
Here is his comment:
额托比想象的小太多。设计比较精巧。装上去颜值逼格有提升。额托的作用是可以不开眼罩找到眼点,感受没有眼罩的悬浮感无镜感。至于稳定性提高个人感觉没有啥明显作用,多了个支点而已,支撑位总是抖的,所以该抖还是抖,指望有了额托就能让1242用出稳像效果的可以醒醒了,不要想太多。
Machine Translation:
Head rest is much smaller than I thought. The design is more compact. Put it on looks better. The role of the head rest is to find eye point without turing the eye cup, feel suspension sense of mirrorless. As for the stability to improve, personal feeling has no obvious effect, only more a fulcum, the support position is always shaking, so shake will also be shake, expection to have a forehead can make 1242 with a steady image effect can wake up, don't think too much.
 

Stanbo

Well-known member
0
Tape grid to wall, tape laser to binos, video record if necessary? If you wanted to get really geeky with it, you could use a program like LoggerPro as used in physics lab assignments that uses the video's frame rate to plot movement, velocity, etc. and can push that to a graph.

Whiterain,

Many thanks for your suggestion. I have a laser on the way and will give it a try, but things could get too complicated.

Looking at the posts on this thread it's becoming clearer that there are a significant number of people with shake who don't know they have it or won't admit it. Quite simply, if you are seeing a more stable image when using the NL with a brace then you have been experiencing shake when using binoculars without it. However, the brace on the Nl might not be as effective as a fully stabilised binocular, but we shall see.
Alternatively some people who don't see any improvement with the brace might not have experienced shake initially.

Stan
 
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Patudo

Well-known member
Here is his comment:
额托比想象的小太多。设计比较精巧。装上去颜值逼格有提升。额托的作用是可以不开眼罩找到眼点,感受没有眼罩的悬浮感无镜感。至于稳定性提高个人感觉没有啥明显作用,多了个支点而已,支撑位总是抖的,所以该抖还是抖,指望有了额托就能让1242用出稳像效果的可以醒醒了,不要想太多。

Thanks for your friend's thoughts sir. The row of binoculars in your other post is quite eye-popping!

I'm interested to know what purchasers of those types of binoculars in the PRC use them for - birdwatching or astronomy? I imagine hunting is quite a restricted activity? The valley that those binoculars in your photo overlook looks as though it would be a great birding spot.
 

Hauksen

Forum member
Hi Stan,

Looking at the posts on this thread it's becoming clearer that there are a significant number of people with shake who don't know they have it or won't admit it.

Interesting thought. I know that this kind of shoulder stock really improved my steadiness (though it was really inspired by another forum member asking for help with his shaking condition):

Shoulder Stock.jpg

(3D printable design, freely available at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2807320 )

I haven't tried a head brace yet, but it should be a fairly simple thing to design a 3D printable one that screws into the tripod thread of the Nikon pictured above ...

Regards,

Henning
 

range

Well-known member
Thanks for your friend's thoughts sir. The row of binoculars in your other post is quite eye-popping!

I'm interested to know what purchasers of those types of binoculars in the PRC use them for - birdwatching or astronomy? I imagine hunting is quite a restricted activity? The valley that those binoculars in your photo overlook looks as though it would be a great birding spot.
Some are birders, some are astronomers, most are binocularers, I mean they are not used for a specific purpose besides being toys.
But the markets for birding and amateur astronomy are rapidly growing.
 

NDhunter

Experienced observer
United States
A head rest should not be needed on any 8X binocular. You should be able to handhold a binocular in this size.

Jerry
 

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