Don't use thread adapters! (1 Viewer)

[Tringa45]

Agreed about the spokes, but you're talking about (almost) vertical loads (compression/tension). If the 'scope is always horizontal on a tripod, there's no problem but the turning moment on the 'scope/QR plate interface is appreciable for a 2 kg 'scope, when it is being carried in an other-than-horizontal position and being bounced about.

A friend of mine, who is an authorised dealer for all the major manufacturer's products, says that the majority of 'scope failures are based around the mounting system. I would still prefer a more robust material for the tripod attachment but I agree - this is the area which lets pretty well all 'scopes down.

When you consider the hardware used to attach a small camera or a Nikon ED50 to a tripod is also used by many people for a Swaro BTX115 is a nonsense. In the latter case, to rely on a 3/8-to-1/4 adapter with only 2-3 threads making contact is rediculous. The blind hole in the foot should ideally be about 15-20 mm deep. You are right - the manufacturers of optics are partly to blame but they arn't helped by the makers of tripod heads!

I've mentioned the analogy dozens of times. Wheel bolts or studs are not in shear. It's the friction between hub and wheel that carries the vertical load and transmits torque. Similarly if the QR plate does not have a compliant surface and there is metal to metal contact to the scope foot then there is no shear on the bolt or anti-rotation pin.
If everything were engineered optimally with sufficient thread depth then a 3/8" UNC bolt could sustain about 40 N.m.
Tighten it to a mere 5 N.m and you still have a compressive load of more than 2500 N or 250 kgf and prudent lubrication of the thread could only increase this. No Loctite required!
A blow with a hammer is not to be recommended but it would be unlikely to loosen the thread connection.

John

 

[Hermann]

I completely agree and I fail to see the reason for adopting Arca-suisse fittings anyway - they aren't as robust as the good old Manfrotto 128RC kit nor the now difficult-to-find Gitzo 1720 and 2720. Personally I find the latter designs the best ever but I think their initial price put many people off.

Most people seem to love Arca Swiss nowadays. I don't. I looked at the Arca Swiss system last year, and I hated it. Talk about spending quite a lot of money on a "system" with so many flaws. Actually, it's not really a system at all, there's no norm, and the plates from different manufacturers don't always fit the adapter plates from other manufacturers. Even the safety catches aren't standardized. It's a total mess. And like you I find there are plenty of Arca Swiss plates and adapters that aren't anywhere as robust as the good old Manfrotto 200 PL system. The Manfrotto system is also faster, and once you used the safety catch, you're done. Nothing is going to get loose. The whole system is foolproof.

For heavy gear I use the Manfrotto 501 PL system. That's IMO the safest and most robust quick release system by far and weorks exceedingly well for heavy gear. There must be a reason Sachtler uses these plates for its professional video heads. For an BTX115 I wouldn't use anything else. And definitely not Arca Swiss. No way.

Hermann

 

[Vixen_893]

Most people seem to love Arca Swiss nowadays. I don't. I looked at the Arca Swiss system last year, and I hated it. Talk about spending quite a lot of money on a "system" with so many flaws. Actually, it's not really a system at all, there's no norm, and the plates from different manufacturers don't always fit the adapter plates from other manufacturers. Even the safety catches aren't standardized. It's a total mess. And like you I find there are plenty of Arca Swiss plates and adapters that aren't anywhere as robust as the good old Manfrotto 200 PL system. The Manfrotto system is also faster, and once you used the safety catch, you're done. Nothing is going to get loose. The whole system is foolproof.

For heavy gear I use the Manfrotto 501 PL system. That's IMO the safest and most robust quick release system by far and weorks exceedingly well for heavy gear. There must be a reason Sachtler uses these plates for its professional video heads. For an BTX115 I wouldn't use anything else. And definitely not Arca Swiss. No way.

Hermann

I totally agree - the Manfrotto system worked perfectly well with Swarovski ATS/STS and the earlier ATX/STX 'scopes. We've been forced to accept the second-rate Arca Suisse solution which is supposed to be popular with photographers. How many wildlife photographers, with their enormous telephoto lenses, do you see using a tripod out in the field? They seem to prefer the working surfaces in birdwatching hides - for hours on end!

Why change? For my new ATX95 (with its Arca Suisse foot), depending on which tripod I'm using, I'll continue to use a heavy-duty Gitzo or Mandfrotto QR plate. In a word, reliable.

Mike H

 

[Tringa45]

What all of us refer to as "Arca-Swiss" is a generic term for just a type of QR plate. Most of them are not authorized by the company Arca-Swiss.
In the UK one used to refer to a ball-point pen as a "Biro", but I don't think anyone would try to fit a Parker refill to a Cross.
As long as you match RRS plates to RRS clamps, Kirk To Kirk, and Berlebach to Berlebach there won't be any problems, and personally, I know of nothing better for our requirements as scope users.
The Manfrotto 501PL has a compliant rubber surface, which could be removed , but most users are going to leave it at that and then run into the usual problems.
On Wednesday evening I was out again looking for Short-eared owls (10 of them in the air simultaneously!) and met up with another BF member whom I had promised a long Novoflex plate, which was incompatible with the safety retention on my Berlebach heads.
The liitle clamping lever on his Sirui VA-5 head didn't provide sufficient movement to clamp the Novoflex plate.
The Sirui VA-5 has been widely praised and is relatively inexpensive. The quality of the Berlebach heads, however is on a different level, albeit at 2-3 times the price.

John

 

[Hermann]

The Manfrotto 501PL has a compliant rubber surface, which could be removed , but most users are going to leave it at that and then run into the usual problems.

That's why I've been preaching that it's best to remove any rubber, plastic or even cork surfaces from any plate. The rubber surface on the Manfrotto plates is pretty decent, however. I use the Manfrotto plates with my Gitzo 2180 heads and the Manfrotto 500AH, and I never had any problem.

On Wednesday evening I was out again looking for Short-eared owls (10 of them in the air simultaneously!) and met up with another BF member whom I had promised a long Novoflex plate, which was incompatible with the safety retention on my Berlebach heads.
The liitle clamping lever on his Sirui VA-5 head didn't provide sufficient movement to clamp the Novoflex plate.
The Sirui VA-5 has been widely praised and is relatively inexpensive. The quality of the Berlebach heads, however is on a different level, albeit at 2-3 times the price.

Agreed, Berlebach heads are a lot better than Sirui as they should be at their price even though Sirui gear is one of the better Chinese manufacturers. As to Novoflex: Novoflex is well known for the funny dimensions of their "Arca Swiss" plates. It's like you said: Arca Swiss is just a generic term for a type of QR plate. You need to choose your Arca Swiss gear very carefully if you don't want to run into problems.

BTW, does anyone remember the first Gitzo QR system? I got that that system in the 1980's, and it made life a heck of a lot easier.

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

As an afterthought:

If you need to use a thread adapter, you might want to look at this: Adapter Small - 1/4'' to 3/8'' Contrary to what it says in the description this adapter is made from steel and not from aluminium. (In the specifications it says "steel" ...) I find these adapters more robust and reliable than most inserts.

Be careful though: There are a few Chinese counterfeit products that look exactly the same but are anything but robust!

Hermann

 

[rockwind]

I completely agree and I fail to see the reason for adopting Arca-suisse fittings anyway - they aren't as robust as the good old Manfrotto 128RC kit nor the now difficult-to-find Gitzo 1720 and 2720. Personally I find the latter designs the best ever but I think their initial price put many people off.

The 3/8-to-1/4 adapters are a disaster waiting to happen, unless you can get sometone to manufacture one from mild steel with 4 - 5 threads. I always insist on using 3/8 screws, which can be acurately cut to length to acheive the maximum thread surface area coverage.

Over the years, I've used a couple of ploys which stop adapter plates working loose. Applying a single layer of heavy-duty double-sided adhesive carpet tape between 'scope foot and adapter plates reduced movement considerably. The other ploy (not recomended if you're concerned about the resale price of your 'scope) is to tap the locater pin hole on the 'scope foot with an appropriate thread size so that the plate is now attached to the scope by a 3/4 screw, a smaller screw in place of the locator pin and double sided tape. I have used this combination on one of my larger 'scopes and the plate hasn't moved in 10 years!

Mike Hannah

you are the first one to have both the ideas i was thinking of doing, just happened to come across this old thread. since i have actually already drilled a hole in the side of the base of my old zeiss diascope 85t for another purpose entirely,, it doesn't seem to matter if i drill another,, although, it already has 2 anti-rotational holes in it that i could just thread with a tap. one is 4.5 and the other is 5mm. i am surprised there arent' some button head low profile 3/8's stainless or black bolts out there in the internet somewhere which would work good. imo

 

[rockwind]

I totally agree - the Manfrotto system worked perfectly well with Swarovski ATS/STS and the earlier ATX/STX 'scopes. We've been forced to accept the second-rate Arca Suisse solution which is supposed to be popular with photographers. How many wildlife photographers, with their enormous telephoto lenses, do you see using a tripod out in the field? They seem to prefer the working surfaces in birdwatching hides - for hours on end!

Why change? For my new ATX95 (with its Arca Suisse foot), depending on which tripod I'm using, I'll continue to use a heavy-duty Gitzo or Mandfrotto QR plate. In a word, reliable.

Mike H

i'm not sure if this is the reason for the arca swiss popularity but here in the states, the arca has taken over the shooting world with lots of rifles having a full length arca rail on the stock in many cases. maybe that market is influencing it?