Duck, Cyprus 21st November 2020 - help with ID please (1 Viewer)

[Jane cyprus]

The following was seen at Bishop's Pool on Cyprus on 21st November. We are looking for help with ID please. Scaup has been suggested - seven previous records here. Tufted is a scarce winter visitor. One photo shows size in relation to Ferruginous Duck and the other in relation to Common Teal.

 

[Steve Lister]

Not an easy one and it might be a hybrid. Looks too small for a (Greater) Scaup cf the Teal and Ferruginous, and seems to have more black on the bill tip than a pure Scaup should have. I don't think it can be a pure Scaup and for me it is either a Tufted or a hybrid.

 

[Jane cyprus]

Not an easy one and it might be a hybrid. Looks too small for a (Greater) Scaup cf the Teal and Ferruginous, and seems to have more black on the bill tip than a pure Scaup should have. I don't think it can be a pure Scaup and for me it is either a Tufted or a hybrid.

That's the way we are thinking too. Good to hear your views too.

 

[John Cantelo]

I'm inclined to think Scaup hybrid too on similar lines as Steve. It doesn't feel right for a Tuftie.

 

[MJB]

I'm inclined to think Scaup hybrid too on similar lines as Steve. It doesn't feel right for a Tuftie.

It looks like a 'Scaup-face' Tufted Duck in eclipse. I've seen a few over the years.
MJB

 

[Jane cyprus]

It looks like a 'Scaup-face' Tufted Duck in eclipse. I've seen a few over the years.
MJB

Thanks.

 

[Jane cyprus]

So looks as if no one is seeing a pure Greater Scaup. Thanks for your input

 

[lou salomon]

hm. i wouldn't dismiss a pure scaup here. it's definitely not a pure tuftie but if a pure scaup or a hibrid - a bit hard to tell. plumagewise i see no problem with it being a female type scaup.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I am by no means an expert here but why isn’t this a within variation female type Tufted with admittedly not any really obvious hybridity? The head looks quite rounded on some of the shots? In others it seems hard to judge though. The good contrast between the mantle and flanks and overall chocolate colour, it seems to have a large amount of diffuse dark on the bill and the indistinct borders on the blaze (which is within range for Tufted) - are these not pro Tufted features? However, it does seem to have grey on the flanks/mantle which is Scaup feature...so hybrid maybe!

 

[Nutcracker]

What about Tuftie x Pochard? They often look surprisingly like (Greater) Scaup.

 

[lou salomon]

Well, i see the following: flanks are paler and more marbled than in typical tufties, scaps (front upperparts) are paler than wings, bill is huge, head shape is very rounded and long, and, last but not least: there is a diffuse pale ear patch behind eye, something that tuftie doesn't show at all. this said, i'd have expected a larger and better defined white "ring" around its bill in an adult female scaup - juveniles should have dark irides - that's the only thing i'm worried. actually if the iris weren't pale i'd have said it absolutely in line with a 1cy scaup. maybe some get pale iris as soon as december?

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

The iris would be still ok for a first year bird in my opinion - it is already getting lighter but not really pale on all photos. T o me this is either a Greater scaup or a hybrid greater scaup with Tufted duck. Given the relative rarity of hybrids (even this one), I ´d favour the former.

For a hybrid common pochard x Tufted duck, which can show much white at the base of the bil and even a pale area on ear coverts . the allways rounded head shape of the bird in question doesn´t fit. It differs from the more sloping front in a hybrid tufted duck x common pochard

 

[Jane cyprus]

Thanks for further input. I was wondering Joern and Lou what you thought about the size of the duck compared to the Ferruginous and the Common Teal?Does this rule out Greater Scaup and point us back to hybrid or even odd Tufted as has also been suggested?

 

[Southern Frogmouth]

Looking at PHOTO-2020-11-21-11-12-13.jpg I can clearly see an extensive dark tip to the bill that eliminates a pure Greater Scaup in my opinion. Usually the area behind the dark nail is the palest area of the bill in my experience, not like this. I have seen Tufted Duck with that bill structure and the head shape doesn't look quite right for Greater Scaup and the size of the bird wouldn't be what I would expect for a Greater Scaup. I wouldn't rule out a pure Tufted Duck or hybrid to be honest. Most winters we have a Tufted Duck x Pochard hybrid on my local patch in a population of about 200 Tufted Duck and I've seen Pochard x Ferruginous, Tufted x Ring-necked Duck as well so they don't seem that rare to me.

Cheers

Roy

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Dark tip on female type plumaged birds can be fairly extensive. On photo 2020-11-21-11-12-13 I do get the impression the bluegrey of the bill is palest behind the black tip, though it is not very marked due to quality of the photo (no offence meant).

Looking at these two and thinking of more blured photo

https://www.birdguides-cdn.com/cdn/articles/AN1Q0192Scaup.jpg

https://www.birdspix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Greater-Scaup-pair_0643-cr.jpg

they then would look close to the bird in question in my opinion
But I agree it seems to be a smaller bird, which is not so good for a Greater scaup.

However, given the relative rarity of hybrids , I said, I would favour the former. That is not a safe ID for me -just considering likeliness.
Are Aythya hybrids more common than greater scaup in your place ?

 

[Nutcracker]

Are Aythya hybrids more common than greater scaup in your place ?

Can't say for Cyprus, but here (inland NE England), I am seeing more Tufty x Pochard hybrids than Greater Scaup in the last 3-4 years. A recent trend as Scaup decline (short-stopping with milder winters), and TxP hybrids increase due to the shortage of female Pochards (males now outnumber females by about 3 : 1 or 4 : 1 so go looking for sex elsewhere).

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Interesting, thanks!

 

[Nutcracker]

Interesting, thanks!

Should add, it's a small sample number: 0-2 Scaup per winter, 2-4 TxP hybrids (present all year of course) so doubtfully significant statistically.

 

[Southern Frogmouth]

I certainly see more Aythya hybrids than Scaup on my local patch but then I live in an inland county (Hertfordshire) at a point that is almost as far inland as you can get so it isn't just NE England that has more hybrids. I have certainly seen Tufted Ducks with heavy bills like that but I can't recall seeing a Greater Scaup that is that small.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Well, here in the east of Lower Saxony on my local patch both are scarce; but at the east coast of Schleswig -Holstein where I have relatives scaup certainly is much more common.
The interesting thing is that the last 3 Aythya hybrids I have seen in easter Lower Saxony were Tufted x Ferruginous , additionally Ferruginous duck from the reintroduction project at "Steinhuder Meer" are also seen in our region. A coincidence? We will see.