Eagle Owls in Britain, Scientific Paper by The World Owl Trust (1 Viewer)

[Mike Price]

There are many questions still outstanding about the possible Hen Harrier predation, it would be wrong for anyone to jump to conclusions at this time.

 

[Adam W]

Im not leaving myself open nirofo, but im not impressed to say the least. Pointless to you maybe, but I know whats gone on, and im not loading the bullets, but hope them two see what they've manufactured. No doubt deny it though. Very pissed off.

As Nirofo said whats the point in posting a comment that nobody begins to understand then refusing to explain it?

 

[ColonelBlimp]

good piece here about the situation in Bowland http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/?p=1178

Quite possibly the most riproaringly funny thing I have read for ages. In fact I have no idea why anything coming out of 'Raptor Politics' tends to automatically get treated as gospel truth: this article is an excellent example of the usual standard of writing coming from that website, heavy on opinion and rhetoric, low on verifiable detail.

Let's take a look. "The filming has been 'commissioned' by Natural England and RSPB". Oo er! "Whilst I have tried to view the film involved the links have failed (if indeed they ever really provided access anyway)". A broken link, a smoking gun, what's the difference? For John Armitage, the film gives us ne'er-do-wells the opportunity "to identify an excuse that avoids them having to confront the real culprits associated with the administration of private shooting estates, who are really responsible for the demise of Hen Harriers in England." In such a high-stakes game, even the unnecessary loss of one nest is tragic.

"A body of solid evidence [needs to be] produced". Sounds reasonable, apart for the fact that it is a manifesto for inaction. Why take any action over non-native species, if you aren't absolutely 100%? He returns again to the same old same old RP rhetoric of casting anyone that isn't sat getting wet in Bowland as the devil in disguise: who to blame? How about "the pussy footing techniques of professional Civil Servants"? Or "Government spin doctors"? A "bunch of detached, amateur opponents"?

I suspect the real reason that Armitage is "pissed off" is that the danger to hen harriers of these owls has been proven beyond that which can be skewed by the usual gamut of doublethink.

 

[Mike Price]

If we don't ask questions and get answers and proof we are nothing more than mushrooms.

 

[kr236rk]

I'm a little confused, I couldnt agree more that we are the problem and therefore have a duty to restore the balance but is that not where things like controlling Corvids comes in?

I take it 'control' is a euphemism.

If as it seems you dont agree with controlling any predators what did you actually mean by our duty to restore the balance?

We quite rightly spend millions if not billions on carefully nuturing rare and endangered species (not only predators) in zoos so that they can be safely released back into the wild and into their natural environments to restore balance into those fragile ecosystems. Yet in this country, beyond the zoos, we still seem to go out our way to persecute and destroy whatever moves beyond the boundaries of the domestic back garden or farm yard.

If you consider us to be part of nature and no different to any other animal (which i wont disagree with as such) then how does that make us killing another predator to benefit ourselves (killing Crows to produce more Pheasants for example) any different the an Eagle Owl doing the same to its rival predators? and if we are part of nature doesn't that then mean that whatever we do is then natural so part of natures balance not interfereing with it?

No. We have the ability to reason and think ahead, which also makes us responsible for our actions, and in any case they bounce back on us sooner or later. The Clovis Culture in the Americas is thought by some to be responsible for wholesale mammalian collapse in that ecosytem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Pleistocene_extinctions#Overkill_hypothesis

the slaughter ceased and the deadly clovis spear tips appear to have been abandoned when the Clovis Culture suddenly realised what they were doing to their environment, so there is hope, humans can step back from the brink ~ the Clovis Culture would have become extinct itself if it had continued to gratuitously hunt everything that moved out of existence.

We are not (yet) in the northern hemisphere in danger of starving due to the destruction of our natural environment and the animals which live within it but we as a species falter forward step by step to extinction with every life form which goes belly up before us, including rare plant forms. Everything is connected, without a vast gene pool the creatures we depend on for factory food are increasingly at threat from virus and disease and that goes for mono crop varieties as well. The message is clear that nature thrives on and because of diversity and humans by seeking to reverse this trend, breeding what it approves of and wiping out everything else is steadily undoing this equation, and by so doing we will be terminally undoing ourselves.

So when I hear about humans killing buzzards, crows, eagle owls, foxes, badgers and all the other happless creatures which we decide are in the way, I write out posts like this in the hope that someone out there might actually be listening.

 

[nirofo]

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth" -Lenin

No wonder you call yourself Colonel Blimp, you can't see wood for trees !!!

nirofo.

 

[nirofo]

Has anybody actually seen the film footage that shows a definite Eagle Owl attacking the Hen Harrier on it's nest or anywhere else for that matter. All I've seen so far are a couple of blurry images that could be anything, ( and that includes a possible set up). If anyone has a genuine link to this footage or any genuine photos will they please post it here. If first hand evidence is not available for general viewing then how can we be expected to draw meaningfull conclusions, and that includes whether to believe it or not.

So Natural England and RSPB, lets see you put your money where your mouth is and come clean.

I await in anticipation if not much hope having been here before!

nirofo.

 

[Adam W]

Has anybody actually seen the film footage that shows a definite Eagle Owl attacking the Hen Harrier on it's nest or anywhere else for that matter. All I've seen so far are a couple of blurry images that could be anything, ( and that includes a possible set up). If anyone has a genuine link to this footage or any genuine photos will they please post it here. If first hand evidence is not available for general viewing then how can we be expected to draw meaningfull conclusions, and that includes whether to believe it or not.

So Natural England and RSPB, lets see you put your money where your mouth is and come clean.

I await in anticipation if not much hope having been here before!

nirofo.

A fair point but had the accusation been that a keeper had killed Hen Harrier would people be asking to personally see the evidence before jumping to any conclusions? I fear not.

 

[ColonelBlimp]

A fair point but had the accusation been that a keeper had killed Hen Harrier would people be asking to personally see the evidence before jumping to any conclusions? I fear not.

Exactement, monsieur! And while we're at it, we might also ponder why any evidence in favour of any 'natural' origin for British Eagle Owls is thrust untrammelled into the limelight, while the vast corpus of evidence suggesting otherwise is condemned immediately...

 

[gropperwinch]

A fair point but had the accusation been that a keeper had killed Hen Harrier would people be asking to personally see the evidence before jumping to any conclusions? I fear not.

quite true Adam.

However, does anyone care to mention my ship-assisted theory? Might be a load of codswallop but I at least can see logic in it and I'd like to realise where I'd gone wrong if my idea was rubbish.

 

[PaulD]

Anyone who isn't busy (over)cooking conspiracy theories might wish to have a look at Mark Avery's blog on the subject.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/community/blogs/markavery/default.aspx

 

[PaulD]

However, does anyone care to mention my ship-assisted theory? Might be a load of codswallop but I at least can see logic in it and I'd like to realise where I'd gone wrong if my idea was rubbish.

Basically there's no evidence to support the idea of ship-assisted origin.

This report discusses reports of birds on oil rigs:-

http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/EAGLE-OWLS-IN-BRITAIN-DOSSIER.pdf

This paper notes that the North Sea Bird Club don't have any records:-

http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/Eagle Owls.pdf

 

[Richard Klim]

On UK400Club Bird Forum today:

I am appalled to hear from regular observers of the EURASIAN EAGLE OWL population in the Forest of Bowland, Lancashire, that two of the adults which were attending three fledged owlets have been destroyed, presumably shot dead. Rumours are rife that the RSPB were involved in the killing, following the publication (and promotion of the incident via video evidence by a popular birding press website) of a video showing one of the adults attacking an adult female Hen Harrier which was nesting close by within the Eagle Owl's territory.

With just 6 pairs of Hen Harrier now known to be breeding in England and southern Scotland, and the continuation of well-keepered grouse estates to ensure that all are destroyed, the viability of the Hen Harrier population is tenuous at best, unless a 24-hour guard is made of EACH and EVERY nest-site (which is virtually impossible, as the birds continually breed on private moors with no general access).

In my exchanges with land gentry/gamekeepers of recent years, and from additional information supplied by those studying the Eagle Owl population in Britain, it seems that the Eagle Owl is not one of their primary targets and they have largely been left alone, and hence why the population in Britain in recent years has exploded and reached as high as 44 territorial pairs in total. If true, it is therefore shameful that the RSPB and English Nature are illegally extinguishing Eagle Owls, as by taking such drastic action, not only will we lose the Hen Harriers but the Eagle Owls too. We have already seen a once thriving Northern Goshawk population in Bowland destroyed, so at this rate, the valley will soon fall silent.

At the very least, attempts should be made to catch these Eagle Owls in the wild in Britain, particularly if authorities are intent in not allowing them to survive side-by-side with our native wildlife.

Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist

Hi Lee et al,

As a general comment that you may wish to take into account, when dealing with the status of Eagle Owl in the UK, is that it is my belief that a lot of these Eagle Owls are being released deliberately to eradicate species such as Hen Harrier by gamekeepers. I was speaking to a gamekeeper recently in the Highlands who told me he knew of a couple of other keepers who had obtained Eagle Owls for this purpose. This particular gamekeeper hadn't done so as despite being in favour of shooting everything, he was also law abiding. He did ask me if I thought it would be legal to 'fly an Eagle Owl and see if it just happened to go for any harriers but then keep it caged overnight'? I said 'no not really'.

I believe Eagle Owls are fairly cheap to buy and this is one reason they are being used like this. I have noted in Scotland a real increase in records of Eagle Owl above the 'natural escapee' threshold. Not surprisingly one of the first areas these birds 'colonised' was wildlife crime ridden South Lanarkshire.

I would suggest that the reason that the gamekeepers you have been liaising with are not targeting Eagle Owls is because it is them that are releasing them and because the owls are doing the dirty work for them.

I can't really comment on this particular incident however I would be very careful about believing every rumour about the RSPB.

Also in Scotland you can go just about anywhere you please so there is general access (despite what some gamekeepers might try to tell you). When you say there are just six breeding pairs left in England and southern Scotland are you sure you don't mean England? Depends what you mean by southern Scotland I guess.

Hope this is of some use.

regards,
John Bell
(Clyde)

 

[ColonelBlimp]

Anyone who isn't busy (over)cooking conspiracy theories might wish to have a look at Mark Avery's blog on the subject.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/community/blogs/markavery/default.aspx

Mark Avery has a very peculiar slant on the Eagle Owl issue. Despite the fact that his argument follows pretty much the same defensive template as the arguments of many posters in this forum (some fairly facile blurring the lines over what constitutes 'nativeness', implying that eagle owls are just another 'predator', and so on), I wonder about the politicking behind his statement.

Undoubtedly eagle owls are a major headache for the RSPB politburo. If you take the obvious path of condemning them and seeking their removal, you're sleepwalking towards a PR disaster. "RSPB kills fluffy owls" or that sort of thing. On the other hand, if you do what Avery is doing here, effectively closing your eyes and hoping the problem goes away, not only are harriers put at risk via the owls themselves, but in effect the RSPB is giving the gamekeeping industry a rod with which to beat the RSPB's back with, essentially sanctioning the release of a top predator that likes a good nibble on grouse.

The whole thing stinks of realpolitik. The question is, who will lose out: the owls or the harriers?

 

[nirofo]

Mark Avery has a very peculiar slant on the Eagle Owl issue. Despite the fact that his argument follows pretty much the same defensive template as the arguments of many posters in this forum (some fairly facile blurring the lines over what constitutes 'nativeness', implying that eagle owls are just another 'predator', and so on), I wonder about the politicking behind his statement.

Undoubtedly eagle owls are a major headache for the RSPB politburo. If you take the obvious path of condemning them and seeking their removal, you're sleepwalking towards a PR disaster. "RSPB kills fluffy owls" or that sort of thing. On the other hand, if you do what Avery is doing here, effectively closing your eyes and hoping the problem goes away, not only are harriers put at risk via the owls themselves, but in effect the RSPB is giving the gamekeeping industry a rod with which to beat the RSPB's back with, essentially sanctioning the release of a top predator that likes a good nibble on grouse.

The whole thing stinks of realpolitik. The question is, who will lose out: the owls or the harriers?

Wherever there's a pound to be made or brownie points to accumulate, then that's where you'll find the RSPB most active. Wherever there's controversy, then the RSPB will slope it's shoulders and look the other way!

As to who will lose out, well that's fairly obvious, while ever there's a gamekeeper with a gun or a bag of poison, then all the Raptors will lose out. Until we can keep the keepers under control then it doesn't matter whether the RSPB kulls the Eagle Owls or not, the Hen Harrier population will continue to decline.

nirofo.

 

[ColonelBlimp]

I am appalled to hear from regular observers of the EURASIAN EAGLE OWL population in the Forest of Bowland, Lancashire, that two of the adults which were attending three fledged owlets have been destroyed, presumably shot dead. Rumours are rife that the RSPB were involved in the killing, following the publication (and promotion of the incident via video evidence by a popular birding press website) of a video showing one of the adults attacking an adult female Hen Harrier which was nesting close by within the Eagle Owl's territory.

El Comandante is mad if he thinks repeating hearsay helps matters. In addition, is there any proof that the owls have been shot or killed? All I've heard is that they have disappeared, leaving the owlets to their fate, though I might not be privy to the full story being a mere civilian...

In fact, from what I've read the RSPB is more concerned for the welfare of these owls than most- e.g. the bizarre stories of the RSPB possibly being involved in rescuing the starving chicks. I can't imagine the Mammal Society climbing trees to save starving grey squirrel kits...

If they have indeed been shot, it goes without saying that even for someone like me who isn't exactly the owls' greatest fan, this is very bad news indeed. If these owls are going to be removed, then capture is by far the most humane way. Taking pot shots at nesting owls is certainly not humane by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[gropperwinch]

Basically there's no evidence to support the idea of ship-assisted origin.

This report discusses reports of birds on oil rigs:-

http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/EAGLE-OWLS-IN-BRITAIN-DOSSIER.pdf

This paper notes that the North Sea Bird Club don't have any records:-

http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/Eagle Owls.pdf

OK, thanks PaulD:t:

 

[Adam W]

If these owls are going to be removed, then capture is by far the most humane way. Taking pot shots at nesting owls is certainly not humane by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not offering an opinion on wether its right or wrong to kill them but if they did then there's no reason to think that shooting them wouldnt be humane.

 

[ColonelBlimp]

I'm not offering an opinion on wether its right or wrong to kill them but if they did then there's no reason to think that shooting them wouldnt be humane.

Eagle Owls are widely kept for falconry, meaning that adult birds could be captured and removed into captivity relatively easily. If these birds have indeed been shot, chicks seem to have been left to starve, and in the abscence of an official cull across Bowland and beyond, this only removes one breeding pair.

Shooting always has to be a last resort, and in this case if the birds were shot (which seems wholly unfounded at the moment), it is far from best practice.

 

[Alan Tilmouth]

Whilst there certainly seems to be some information and official confirmation that the Eagle Owls deserted the nest, Lancashire RSPB have issued a statement vehemently denying the "baseless accusations made that they are responsible for the disappearance" and calling for "any evidence of illegal activity to be reported"
I am yet to read or see any evidence, everything written so far purporting to have inside info has been pure rumour, speculation etc. No corpses, no pictures, I still can't find any links to the NE video showing the Eagle Owl at the HH nest.