Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)

[London Birder]

I wonder how long the purported 40 'pairs' (by that I assume they mean m/f) have been knocking around?

 

[ed keeble]

I could let you answer this one yourself - buy yourself an air ticket and I will put you within 500 metres of their nest site, I will be mighty impressed if you find one of the birds. In low densities, which 40 pairs in the entire UK would be, they can easily be overlooked. Call certainly might help, but how many birdwatchers wander round their local woodlands at night.

I'm sure that's true in your neck of the woods with extensive forests and so on. But I know from direct exeprience that some of the recolonising birds in NW Europe are much more prominent, as they are nesting in live quarries, used factory buildings with only very limited and obvious roost sites and not using forest cover. So yes some pairs could be tucked away unseen and unheard but if we are truly up to 40 pairs and they are from the recolonising stock, I think a few more might have come to wider attention.

 

[Amarillo]

I could let you answer this one yourself - buy yourself an air ticket and I will put you within 500 metres of their nest site, I will be mighty impressed if you find one of the birds. In low densities, which 40 pairs in the entire UK would be, they can easily be overlooked. Call certainly might help, but how many birdwatchers wander round their local woodlands at night.

But Britain is much more densely populated than Lithuania. Yes, there are wild areas where no-one goes, but not many. We also have a lot of birdwatchers in Britain and if there really were 40 pairs, more would be known about. The calls can be heard several kilometres away. This would be what would lead them to be discovered, not necessarily seeing the birds.

I really want to believe that there are that many, but I suspect its an overestimate.

 

[Jos Stratford]

To the above couple of posts, I also share the view that 40 pairs seems on the high side and would expect more would be discovered (though I think it would usually be non-birders that initially find them ...reporting a 'huge bird went flopping off'). Point I was making is that they certainly can be be overlooked - the first year I realised I had a pair on my patch I criss-crossed the territory for hours before finally encountering the birds. Still now, I know within a few hundred metres where they are, but almost never see them even if I do a search (nor do I hear them for that matter, given that I rarely go there at night).

This winter and early spring, planning quite a general owl bash across several areas, will rely on tapes and callbacks, but not expecting big numbers

 

[Jos Stratford]

The calls can be heard several kilometres away.

I am interested in this - does anybody have experience of calls over this range? Though I've seen it written that calls can be heard for up to 5 km, my personal experience is you would need good conditions to hear it over much more a kilometre.

 

[Amarillo]

I am interested in this - does anybody have experience of calls over this range? Though I've seen it written that calls can be heard for up to 5 km, my personal experience is you would need good conditions to hear it over much more a kilometre.

I'm quoting this from a programme on TV here the other day, and in the TV footage of the birds in northern england, the calls were very loud and distinctive - and during the day as well.

Yes, they did say its generally 1 or 2 km, but up to 5 in good conditions. I guess this is how the pairs find each other.

 

[London Birder]

I am interested in this - does anybody have experience of calls over this range? Though I've seen it written that calls can be heard for up to 5 km, my personal experience is you would need good conditions to hear it over much more a kilometre.

Mikkola (1983) states 'audible in all conditions up to 1.5k but during good weather up to 4k (Blotzheim & Bauer 1980)

 

[Pugs]

As for historical records, well fossil bones don't really help do they? ... EO's may well have occured in the UK in prehistory but I imagine the UK had a somewhat different ecology back then; as for all the old records from 1600 onwards etc, I can't say I've seen them all but sure I've seen the odd reference in county avifaunas and they never have much by way of supporting detail. Assumedly the BOU have been through these records and found them wanting. RD (who is rightly regarded as a knowledgeable raptor man and conservationist) seems to think that the rigourous approach to bird documentation that we see today shouldn't be applied to these records and up to a point I can see his argument, but come on, don't we need at least some confidence levels in past 'claims' or should we merely accept those old records as EO's simply because somebody said so ... and thereby possibly skewing the (past) British avifaunal assemblage into something it may not have been ... simply because some would like to see EO promoted to Cat A.

So how would other species be treated? What would happen to, if for instance, Scops, Hawk or Tengmalm's where to breed here? What about Egrets etc?
Would Scops been seen in the same light as EO's, would THEY be accepted or risk persecution?

 

[Jos Stratford]

So how would other species be treated? What would happen to, if for instance, Scops, Hawk or Tengmalm's where to breed here? What about Egrets etc?
Would Scops been seen in the same light as EO's, would THEY be accepted or risk persecution?

For reasons mentioned earlier, I don't support any persecution of the Eagle Owls anyhow, but the situation for all the other species you mention would be slightly different, as they have all be shown to occur naturally (accepted onto category A) and, I believe, aren't quite so common in captivity. So, it would be even harder to justify or 'disprove' the possibility of natural breeding (mind you, I would say Hawk Owl is not very high on the possibilities stakes, as it really is a high latitude breeder, the only records further south being true vagrants).

 

[cheshirebirder]

Watched the programme on Tuesday.I reckon there was enough information in the programme to find the location. After a bit of research and map-work I reckon I know where they are.I'm not going to say where on here or tell others, but if I can do this, so can others who might want to harm the birds.This is very worrying - was the programme too informative?

 

[Woodchatshrike]

So how would other species be treated? What would happen to, if for instance, Scops, Hawk or Tengmalm's where to breed here? What about Egrets etc?
Would Scops been seen in the same light as EO's, would THEY be accepted or risk persecution?

There is little risk of Scops flying off with someones cat. Unless it was really small!!!

 

[Woodchatshrike]

Greetings Cheshirebirder. You made it very quickly from newest member to putting on your first post!

 

[Jos Stratford]

There is little risk of Scops flying off with someones cat.

More likely vice versa, I would say

 

[Amarillo]

Watched the programme on Tuesday.I reckon there was enough information in the programme to find the location. After a bit of research and map-work I reckon I know where they are.I'm not going to say where on here or tell others, but if I can do this, so can others who might want to harm the birds.This is very worrying - was the programme too informative?

Yes, I think you could easily work it out.

One thing that I was surprised about was the nest was almost at the base of the cliff - very exposed. I'm surprised the chicks haven't been taken by foxes already.

Is this usual? I would have thought that they usually nest higher up more out of reach of predators

 

[Isurus]

So how would other species be treated? What would happen to, if for instance, Scops, Hawk or Tengmalm's where to breed here? What about Egrets etc?
Would Scops been seen in the same light as EO's, would THEY be accepted or risk persecution?

Its only a matter of time before we see a newspaper about the snowy white invader denuding garden ponds of our beloved goldfish!

 

[Jos Stratford]

Yes, I think you could easily work it out.

One thing that I was surprised about was the nest was almost at the base of the cliff - very exposed. I'm surprised the chicks haven't been taken by foxes already.

Is this usual? I would have thought that they usually nest higher up more out of reach of predators

Nest at top of mature pines (other trees) here, utilising past nests of raptors, ravens, etc. Mind you, they've got no choice - there are no cliffs in this country!

 

[Amarillo]

So how would other species be treated? What would happen to, if for instance, Scops, Hawk or Tengmalm's where to breed here? What about Egrets etc?
Would Scops been seen in the same light as EO's, would THEY be accepted or risk persecution?

As I understand it only needs ONE record of a wild bird to be accepted, for them to be admitted to the list and protected.

In the case of the eagle owl, any sighting is automatically put down as an escape, so I think we are better off considering whether it is possible that they have at some time in the recent past reached our shores naturally, rather than worrying about whether they actually have.

 

[Woodchatshrike]

Yes, I think you could easily work it out.

One thing that I was surprised about was the nest was almost at the base of the cliff - very exposed. I'm surprised the chicks haven't been taken by foxes already.

Is this usual? I would have thought that they usually nest higher up more out of reach of predators

I seen them on the nest in some pretty exposed places in the Czech republic. The female was really obvious lying on the eggs like a big pussycat.

One of the claims on the TV programme was that Eagle owls are known to take foxes. I think the owls would not let them near the nestsite.
Also being up on cliffs would mean they are above the scent line and not as easy for a fox to find.

 

[cheshirebirder]

As I understand it only needs ONE record of a wild bird to be accepted, for them to be admitted to the list and protected.

In the case of the eagle owl, any sighting is automatically put down as an escape, so I think we are better off considering whether it is possible that they have at some time in the recent past reached our shores naturally, rather than worrying about whether they actually have.

If a bird was seen on the east coast , say,would that be good enough as a definite wild bird?I don't think it would be accepted as such even if it was seen to fly from the sea.Eagle owl is one of those birds that people just never accept as being wild.Greater flamingo is another example - it would take a Camarge ringed bird say before it ever got on the list.Perhaps a ringed bird is the only chance - apart from eventual category C status.

 

[London Birder]

So how would other species be treated? What would happen to, if for instance, Scops, Hawk or Tengmalm's where to breed here? What about Egrets etc?
Would Scops been seen in the same light as EO's, would THEY be accepted or risk persecution?

I'm not quite sure I know what you mean, why would they be seen in the same light as the EO?