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Emberiza sp. (Central Spain) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SLopezM
- Start date
birdmeister
Well-known member
I'd go for Corn Bunting.
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
I looked at this last night but was too tired to comment. However, I can’t see a Corn Bunting here. For one thing, there’s a lot of white in the (long!) tail and if (as the tail suggests) this is an adult, the bill should be yellowish not grey for Corn Bunting. I think it may be a Cirl Bunting.
(edit. I see that I cross posted with Carey as I was looking at this and see we are thinking along similar lines)
(edit. I see that I cross posted with Carey as I was looking at this and see we are thinking along similar lines)
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Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
I think its a 1 CY Rock Bunting.
Please note the right colours for this species: grey on head and breast and pale orange-brown tone to vent and undertail-coverts.
Heavy spotting to the breast makes this a 1CY rather than an adult female.
Pale median crown stripe on the forehead just above bill is not good for Cirl, in juveniles with the most distinctive median crown stripe its normaly (but not allways) centered on rear/upper crown, while the crown-pattern of this bird is good for some Corn Buntings, but the colours are wrong.
Please note the right colours for this species: grey on head and breast and pale orange-brown tone to vent and undertail-coverts.
Heavy spotting to the breast makes this a 1CY rather than an adult female.
Pale median crown stripe on the forehead just above bill is not good for Cirl, in juveniles with the most distinctive median crown stripe its normaly (but not allways) centered on rear/upper crown, while the crown-pattern of this bird is good for some Corn Buntings, but the colours are wrong.
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
Tbh, I’m finding difficult to distinguish between artifact and plumage features - I have only just realised the crown your referring to is not the upper mandible as I thought! - someone with younger eyes perhaps!?
Have a look at this link and compare the tail pattern of juvenile Rock Bunting with the OP bird - I can’t see the match but maybe I’m missing something
http://blascozumeta.com/wp-content/uploads/aragon-birds/passeriformes/446.rockbunting-ecia.pdf
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Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
Actually looking at this again, I don’t think you can see the crown the bird’s head is leaning to the side and right back with the throat exposed towards us - while most of the head and neck are obscured by foliage.
I think I was seeing it right the first time - that ‘pale median crown stripe on the forehead’ is the upper mandible isn’t it?! or if you were referring to the paler area above the eyebrow area, that would be a pale lateral crown stripe (which would be consistent with Cirl).
As for the orangey colour of the lower belly and vent, that you say is a criteria, that I think is not on the bird but ghosting of near camera foliage - if you enlarge the image you’ll see what I mean.
I still think it could be either Cirl or Rock Bunting - but I think we need more images:-O
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Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Hello Deb,
thank you for your detailed answer. Regarding colours and artefacts vs. the real appearance of this bird, I should better looking on a second computer. You might be right regarding cautious approach in this case.
Sorry for confusion: this is not a juvenile Rock Bunting to me, I agree with you, they normally have a pale buffish ground colour to the breast in this plumage.
I still think, its a 1 CY Rock Bunting. I have seen similar Rock Buntings before, that looked similar to this bird here. Colouration and head-pattern similar to a female, but with heavy streaks to the breast (and with a clear cut boarder to the unstreaked belly).
I allways thought they were birds moulting from juvenile to first winter, because I have never seen a Rock Bunting in spring wih such a heavy streaked breast (but I have not enough experience to be sure of variation).
Looking a the picture again, the colours seems very good for a Rock Bunting, but you are right: I better wait, until looked at a second Computer.
I really meant "median crown stripe", but again I wait. But I still dont see a Cirl Bunting here.
thank you for your detailed answer. Regarding colours and artefacts vs. the real appearance of this bird, I should better looking on a second computer. You might be right regarding cautious approach in this case.
Sorry for confusion: this is not a juvenile Rock Bunting to me, I agree with you, they normally have a pale buffish ground colour to the breast in this plumage.
I still think, its a 1 CY Rock Bunting. I have seen similar Rock Buntings before, that looked similar to this bird here. Colouration and head-pattern similar to a female, but with heavy streaks to the breast (and with a clear cut boarder to the unstreaked belly).
I allways thought they were birds moulting from juvenile to first winter, because I have never seen a Rock Bunting in spring wih such a heavy streaked breast (but I have not enough experience to be sure of variation).
Looking a the picture again, the colours seems very good for a Rock Bunting, but you are right: I better wait, until looked at a second Computer.
I really meant "median crown stripe", but again I wait. But I still dont see a Cirl Bunting here.
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
This is a link to a bird in a similar position to the OP
It’s obviously not the same age or sex but see how the colour border between the upper chest and belly follows the contours of the birds body.?
https://www.naturepl.com/stock-photo-emberiza-cia-nature-image00542559.html
In the OP, on enlargement, this apparently orangey border runs a sharp diagonal line down from the top right to the to lower down on the belly than it should be and does not seem to follow the rounded contour of the belly, which is why I suggested this is artifact and a result of near-camera yellow/orangey foliage (as seen in other parts of the image) This artifact would also blur any definition, like streaking on the lower belly. Most of the head, other than a hefty bill (with the tip just about visible on the other side of a branch) remains hidden to me. The head crown is hidden to me. (the eye would be directly behind a twig with the edge of the eye just about visible. ( tail also looks a little on the short side for RB but this could be the angle and shows no sign of wear which is what I thought one could expect for a 1cy, no?))
I agree that a lot leads to Rock Bunting and have intimated as much already, but as so much is hidden of the op bird, or obvious (to me) artifact, I cant rule out Cirl for 100%. I’m obviously not seeing the image in the same way as others! For me its a bit like looking at the optical illusion pattern tests trying to see the animal or face in the maze of abstract colour!)
It’s obviously not the same age or sex but see how the colour border between the upper chest and belly follows the contours of the birds body.?
https://www.naturepl.com/stock-photo-emberiza-cia-nature-image00542559.html
In the OP, on enlargement, this apparently orangey border runs a sharp diagonal line down from the top right to the to lower down on the belly than it should be and does not seem to follow the rounded contour of the belly, which is why I suggested this is artifact and a result of near-camera yellow/orangey foliage (as seen in other parts of the image) This artifact would also blur any definition, like streaking on the lower belly. Most of the head, other than a hefty bill (with the tip just about visible on the other side of a branch) remains hidden to me. The head crown is hidden to me. (the eye would be directly behind a twig with the edge of the eye just about visible. ( tail also looks a little on the short side for RB but this could be the angle and shows no sign of wear which is what I thought one could expect for a 1cy, no?))
I agree that a lot leads to Rock Bunting and have intimated as much already, but as so much is hidden of the op bird, or obvious (to me) artifact, I cant rule out Cirl for 100%. I’m obviously not seeing the image in the same way as others! For me its a bit like looking at the optical illusion pattern tests trying to see the animal or face in the maze of abstract colour!)
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Thank you all for your answers. I am sorry, but this is the only picture I was able to take before the bird left.
The three species you have mentioned (Emberiza calandra, E. cia and E. cirlus) have been seen in the area. Although I couldn't take more pictures, I was able to see the bird during some seconds and I can almost surely say it was not E. calandra. Then, regarding the two other options left, E. cia seems more common in the area, while E. cirlus has been seen just a few times.
Therefore, adding this information to your answers, I will classify it as E. cia.
The three species you have mentioned (Emberiza calandra, E. cia and E. cirlus) have been seen in the area. Although I couldn't take more pictures, I was able to see the bird during some seconds and I can almost surely say it was not E. calandra. Then, regarding the two other options left, E. cia seems more common in the area, while E. cirlus has been seen just a few times.
Therefore, adding this information to your answers, I will classify it as E. cia.
