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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kirk Roth" data-source="post: 1786228" data-attributes="member: 85015">It needs to be understood that there will be "data issues" no matter what the new name becomes - it is the nature of any taxonomic split.  If old records are recorded as "Winter Wren" or "Troglodytes troglodytes," records could potentially refer to either the pacificus or hiemalis taxon, especially in British Columbia, etc.  I don't quite understand the East/West bitterness - this is simply where the birds live!Whether the eastern birds are called Boreal or Winter Wrens does not change the fact that many of the old "amateur" records (for lack of a better term) were taken using a less precise definition of the taxa.  If we are to use these data, we must deal with this on every single split that occurs!  But as I've stated before, this isn't much of a problem for serious researchers who can map out the former subspecific ranges and make the pretty accurate assumption that most of the migratory eastern birds belonged to hiemalis and the western forest birds belong to pacificus.  Again, there will be the problem in the areas where the two taxa both occur, but nobody will able to fix the problem by renaming!Just for fun, let's pretend that a population of T. troglodytes troglodytes occurs in Newfoundland, and we are still considering splitting the three taxa into species.  Most data around North America have, until this point, been reported as "Troglodytes troglodytes" with no mention of subspecies.  How do I retroactively clarify all of those records with a name?  I cannot demand that the first-described subspecies be renamed, just so that I don't have to "deal with it!" And even if that were allowed, I would still have to deal with old defunct names, inaccurate data, birders not knowing the correct names, etc.  But, you see, the same would be true if the old name were kept!Regarding "regionalism," whether we like it or not, hiemalis (="winter") was the name ascribed to the Eastern American subspecies of the bird and pacificus (= "pacific") was ascribed to the major Western American subspecies.  I would say that "Winter Wren" was wrongly used to describe the western subspecies, but that doesn't prevent us from having to deal with it now!  I guess what I'm trying to say is that if anything is "regionalistic," I feel it is the current naming system.</blockquote>

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