European Erebia Butterflies for ID & Discussion (1 Viewer)

[balkantrek]

So here we go, let's see if we can get some similarly interesting and useful discussion going about the identification of European Erebia butterflies in the same as we have had for European blue butterflies.

I will start the ball rolling by posting four photos from Bulgaria's Rodopi Mountains.

Photo 1: Seems to be a Bright-eyed Ringlet (Erebia oeme) or perhaps a Woodland Ringlet (Erebia medusa)

Photo 2a & 2b: Show underside and upperside of same species. Keep changing my mind about this, as there always seems to be some little features either present or missing that contradict my ideas.

Photo 3: this certainly appears to be either Arran Brown (Erebia ligea) or Large Ringlet (Erebia euryale). Hard to be certain without shot of underside as both species could appear here.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Great, great, great! :bounce: Thanks Balkantrek for starting this!

Adey, it seems there are more Erebia lovers on line this year o Take advantage of it!

I am in a hurry at this moment and don't have my books, so I will comment only on the one I can, which is last picture. Shall come again tonight. I agree it is either Arran Brown or Large Ringlet as it has chequered fringes. By the type of black spots inside the chestnut area of the forewings, it could be either female Arran or both sexes of Large Ringlet. But that chestnut colour is too bright to be any of the females so I am inclined to think it is a male Large Ringlet.

Any contradictions will be easily admited :-O

 

[Gavia_immer]

Pic 1. Yes, Erebia medusa or Erebia oeme. I have been doing some research and the definitive clue is the colour of the underside of the antennal tip: black in oeme and brown in medusa.

Unfortunately, I cannot see it clearly in this shot. Do you have any other? Even a bad half frontal shot might show it.

 

[balkantrek]

Pic 1. Yes, Erebia medusa or Erebia oeme. I have been doing some research and the definitive clue is the colour of the underside of the antennal tip: black in oeme and brown in medusa.

Yes, as you say this is the definitive clue, but unfortunately I don't have another shot.

However, I have been studying other photos of the two species on the internet and in my books and I wonder if there is another subtle difference. If you look at the orange patches that surround the ocelli on the underside forewing it seems to me that the orange on the majority of specimens of Erebia medusa is rather more spreading and diffuse, whereas on Erebia oeme the orange patch surrounding the ocelli is tighter and more compact. Have a look at some pictures and see what you think. To me there appears a small but subtle difference, and this is suggesting to me that my photo is Erebia oeme rather than E. medusa.

What do you think? Am I just imagining this as a difference?

 

[Gavia_immer]

Hey, Balkantrek!

We must have been studying pics on the web at the same time :-O

I have noticed that too, only that I am not sure if that is a reliable ID tip for both species. It isn't mentioned anywhere I checked.

Is it just my imagination too, or I can see that the left antenna tip of your Erebia is not black at all? That would mean it is medusa. Confusing little things :C

EDIT: I have noticed something else. Pay attention to the 3rd spot on the forewing underside. Your Erebia seems to have quite a well developed spot. In the pics I have chequed, medusa seems to have it bigger than oeme. Although none of them seem to have it as big as the one in your pic. Again, I don't know if that can be considered an ID tip. Only guessing.

 

[balkantrek]

Is it just my imagination too, or I can see that the left antenna tip of your Erebia is not black at all? That would mean it is medusa.

I have had another look at the antenna on the original photo, blowing up the picture very large, and indeed there is certainly an overall yellow-brown colouration which suggests medusa.

I have also now carefully checked the distribution of both species in Bulgaria, and whilst both butterflies do occur in the western part of the Rodopi, medusa is by far the more widely distributed and is marked as occuring in the region where I took the photo, while oeme is more restricted and not registered in that particular UTM square.

I am, therefore, now inclined to go with Erebia medusa as being the butterfly in photo 1.

 

[Adey Baker]

Well, I'm late logging on tonight, so I'm glad to see this thread up and running! Will search out some shots when I have more time.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Take your time, Adey! We will be here ready to discuss :king:

I still had to comment on Balkantrek's pics 2a and 2b. I have gone through every possible Erebia in my book and DIDN'T find ANY that matches your butterfly :eek!: However, I think it is so tatty that it is deceiving us. A second check, much more careful, has taken me to the conclussion that it might be a female Arran Brown. It has lost its fringes so we don't have that clue, but the underside is quite revelatory I think. I can see that pale postdiscal band and 3-4 black spots surrounded with brown. Only female Arran Brown has such a pattern with a similar upperwing. We must bare in mind that although it seems to lack the 3rd spot on the reddish area a reminiscent one can be seen.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts. What are your options? Probably I have missed something in the checking of the 46 European Erebias :-O

 

[madamcoolpix]

o Delighted to see an Erebia Butterflies thread running!!!

I'll have a try myself tomorrow or during the weekend, when I have the time!!! I love Erebias!!!!!!! :bounce:

 

[balkantrek]

I thought long and hard about Arran Brown, but couldn't convince myself of that. Even though a tattered battered specimen, would it really be lacking all its white fringes? Even more important, according to all references I have consulted, they all emphasize that a key feature of the Arran Brown underside hidnwing is that it has a pure white streak ('costal mark' or 'postdiscal streak')...and there is no evidence of such a pure white mark on the underside. I know its a faded, battered specimen but I am certain there would be some brighter white traces visible.

I looked at Nicholl's Ringlet, Ottoman Brassy Ringlet and even at Water Ringlet. But these aren't right.

So personally my instinct is more towards Large Ringlet. Take a look at this link:
http://www.butterfliesofbulgaria.com/ereeur.html
There definately seems a reasonable resemblence of both upper and underside.

Will continue research and deliberation!

 

[Adey Baker]

Here's a couple of shots that I thought at the time were large Ringlets - Haute-Savoie, France July 2005. As the book says, they are very variable with 'blind' or white-pupilled ocelli depending on area.

 

[Adey Baker]

...and what my son and I took to be an Arran Brown, Austria July 1998. Although not showing in the photo, it did have the obvious white 'flash' on the underwing unlike the whitish area on the above Large Ringlet

 

[Gavia_immer]

You guys have made me change my mind

Balkantrek, I see what you mean. Arran's white band should be seen better. Your butterfly simple shows a 'pale' band, not white. I think you are right when you said that it should be shown better even when the specimen is so battered.

Whatever it is, I think it is the same species shown in Adey's post 11. The pattern is exactly the one of the second pic. If it has been IDed as Large Ringlet, then I agree with you both.

What worries me is that I cannot find any illustration of Large Ringlet that matches well with your butterflies. The variation shown in the pics I have seen in the web is 'terrifying'. What are then the reliable ID tips for Large Ringlet? I should learn those. Large Ringlet can be found in Cordillera Cantabrica (N Spain) and I have the intention to visit the area during my holidays I would hate to miss a lifer!

If somebody tells me 1 month ago that I would be discussing on Erebias I would have thought that somebody might need his/her mind examined :-O

 

[balkantrek]

Yes, there does seem quite a lot of subtle variation in the patterning on the underside of the hindwing in Large Ringlet. Adey's photos of that species look fairly 'classic' and help to reinforce my opinion about my own photo.

It looks like we both have photographed these two tricky twins Large Ringlet and Arran Brown.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Adey's photos of that species look fairly 'classic' and help to reinforce my opinion about my own photo.

Glad we have reached a conclussion on that one :t:

 

[Adey Baker]

Here's a couple of photos taken in July 2004 at Pordoi Pass in the Italian Dolomites at a height of about 2,200m.

It was the year before I bought my first digital SLR and were thus taken with a little Sony W1 compact digital camera. Not ideal under the circumstances - trying to keep up with butterflies that were mainly interested in getting into the grass! One did pose with open wings momentarily whilst trying to soak up a bit of heat from the brief sunny spots.

Not sure whether they're the same species, even. I've no closed-wing shots but I labelled at least one of them as Bright-eyed Ringlet, E. oeme but I'm not at all sure whether they even occur there! I can't remember all the details but I think that there were enough spots on the hindwing to at least suggest that species (it was 5 years ago!) and I can't really find anything else. A classic Erebia puzzle

 

[Gavia_immer]

Hi, all!

Adey, I have been studying Bright-eyed Ringlet and not only it matches your first butterfly very well but also it is found in the Dolomites and it is the commonest Erebia of mountain meadows. It usually rests on tall grass. I don't know if other Erebias do that too but at least it is an excellent candidate.

I am not so sure about the 2nd pic. It might be another one. However, I have seen so much variation in pics of Bright-eyed Ringlet that I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be the same species.

Back to my books in search of other possible candidates :brains:

 

[Adey Baker]

Thanks for the comments, Gavia. They were certainly quite close to each other so could well be the same species.

Here's one or two more from high up (2,000+ metres) - this time Austria and the Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse. The first two show a Dewy Ringlet E. pandrose July 1997 and the third was a year later and I thought it was probably Eriphyle Ringlet, E. eriphyle though I'm not so sure on that one

 

[Gavia_immer]

I have had a careful look at every single Erebia in the Dolomites and couldn't find anything more similar than Bright-eyed Ringlet to your second butterfly. I think it is quite safe to say it is one too untill somebody else gives an opinion.

Looking forward to checking your Erebias from Austria. But it will be tomorrow. It is 11:00 pm here in Spain and I am shattered :gn:

 

[Gavia_immer]

Adey, I have a couple of questions for you :

First: Was the 1rst and 2nd pic the same specimen? Because the bug in the 1rst pic is so battered that I have no idea how you managed to know it is Dewy Ringlet. Once you know and try to see a Dewy Ringlet in it, you see it. But if I find that one in the wild I would have never guessed. The underwing of the 2nd gives away what it is though.

Second: Why do you suspect the 3rd pic is a Eryphile Ringlet? I am completely lost with that one. To me it can be 10 different species. I need something to work on.