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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tib78" data-source="post: 2668349" data-attributes="member: 71118">Thanks for your nice compliment gentlemen.But of course there is a lot more that needs to be said on this topic. Especially on the variability of juveniles. In particular, some young males are confusingly similar to adult female with regards to the underparts pattern, here is an example (stunning photos!):<a href="http://pewit.blogspot.fr/2010/10/hen-harrier-stick-with-subject.html" target="_blank">http://pewit.blogspot.fr/2010/10/hen-harrier-stick-with-subject.html</a>With such good pics, the ID remains relatively straightforward: the bars on the primaries are weak or even reduced to a small spot, the secondaries show too many bars. Actually even the underbody and undertail coverts are subtly different compared to ad female: those are streaked instead of showing the drop-shaped spots of ad females.But I have seen juv males that were even a lot closer in appearance to ad female (no photos unfortunately), in such case, the jizz/structure is a great help. Especially if the bird is seen in less than perfect conditions and that the pattern of the remiges can't be assessed accurately.There are some other characters that I noticed after studying some photos, but they require further investigation.</blockquote>