I had binos from Leica, Zeiss & Swaro. All the focusers were perfect except for the NL 8x32 but the "scratchy" points disappeared in 2 weeks. Also, the Ultravid 8x20 was to hard to turn for my taste brand new but as I'm used to this with Leica lenses, I knew it would be perfect after a while. And it did (I speeded up the process using turning it a lot with a small Lego Mindstorms assembly, it was fun).
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Focuser smoothness on NL Pure? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter moshc
- Start date
I had binos from Leica, Zeiss & Swaro. All the focusers were perfect except for the NL 8x32 but the "scratchy" points disappeared in 2 weeks. Also, the Ultravid 8x20 was to hard to turn for my taste brand new but as I'm used to this with Leica lenses, I knew it would be perfect after a while. And it did (I speeded up the process using turning it a lot with a small Lego Mindstorms assembly, it was fun).
ZD,
We've had this discussion. "Try before you buy" is almost ad nauseam repeated here. Obvious advice, as you wrote, that is not so easy to do in this day and age. Amazon, et al have killed off Mom and Pop's optics (insert whichever specialty business your interested in) shop. Leaving for many/most the online mail order option. Those folks do their best to fill in for Mom and Pop, doing what they can to make the sale easy enough. But some of us dont find that, all that convenient. Many here describe ordering two of a thing at one time, intending to keep only one. Sometimes the choices are more varied. Sometimes what you thought you wanted between 2 of a thing, are in fact not right and a smart sales person at Mom and Pops could suggest a third possibility. With online, that possibility is gone. The schlepp to re-box and drop off at a shipper is not how some of us want to spend our days. Then there's this. Dont we want to be buying new, as new as possible, from the manufacturer? What does the online merchant do with those returned items in as new" condition? They turn around and sell them back to the next person in line. Did you just pay full price for a used thing? Used for 30 days? Do you live in a place with harsh environment? Were they sitting out on the table when, someone burned last nights dinner. I wonder. I bet I'm not alone. Returning something so it looks new, is not so hard. What do we know about how the thing was handled? Did somebody spit on their shirt tail to wipe off that little bit of gunk on the lens? Crude notion, shocking to us, but think about it. When we order 2 expecting to keep only 1, we guarantee theres now a used one, being resold as new. Maybe its fine, maybe not... For now, buying online for many of us is the only way. Is it the best way?
We've had this discussion. "Try before you buy" is almost ad nauseam repeated here. Obvious advice, as you wrote, that is not so easy to do in this day and age. Amazon, et al have killed off Mom and Pop's optics (insert whichever specialty business your interested in) shop. Leaving for many/most the online mail order option. Those folks do their best to fill in for Mom and Pop, doing what they can to make the sale easy enough. But some of us dont find that, all that convenient. Many here describe ordering two of a thing at one time, intending to keep only one. Sometimes the choices are more varied. Sometimes what you thought you wanted between 2 of a thing, are in fact not right and a smart sales person at Mom and Pops could suggest a third possibility. With online, that possibility is gone. The schlepp to re-box and drop off at a shipper is not how some of us want to spend our days. Then there's this. Dont we want to be buying new, as new as possible, from the manufacturer? What does the online merchant do with those returned items in as new" condition? They turn around and sell them back to the next person in line. Did you just pay full price for a used thing? Used for 30 days? Do you live in a place with harsh environment? Were they sitting out on the table when, someone burned last nights dinner. I wonder. I bet I'm not alone. Returning something so it looks new, is not so hard. What do we know about how the thing was handled? Did somebody spit on their shirt tail to wipe off that little bit of gunk on the lens? Crude notion, shocking to us, but think about it. When we order 2 expecting to keep only 1, we guarantee theres now a used one, being resold as new. Maybe its fine, maybe not... For now, buying online for many of us is the only way. Is it the best way?
jcnguyen09
Well-known member
My 1st pair NL 10x32 I received from vendor (don't need to mention name here), It got the warped, uneven eye cups on both sides. It is a rare thing with Swarovski product. My guess is that some one might seat on the backpack with the binoculars on it. It was most likely a returned one! Over the years it happened here and there all the times, specially to inquire the optics from large, chain department vendors like Cabela's, Sheels, etc.... Since I do not practice buy and return habits, I research very carefully on the things I need to buy to make sure that is what I want, I don't hesitate to call all stores within 1 hrs driving to check if they have sample for trying out or go to the hunting, sport fairs, etc... My goal is to get to know about the item as much as possible. I also suggest to search and read all the review here in this forum. it provided valuable practical information no where else can provide! I do all of these before putting money down on any online orders because I hate spending times and don't feel good to buy/return not for an absolute reason! Just share my personal view! and the habit is pretty much due to where I came from, most of the sellers does not have the return policy. You buy what you see, no return!
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jan van daalen
Well-known member
Try before you buy? should not mentioned as a possible way to buy, it is the only way to buy optics in the >700,00 euro department.
Even when your sample is stolen after 5 years of use and you want the same model back. Even top optics have sample variations and it is a matter of trying to find out which one suits ones best. The only way to go through that route is the brick and mortar store.
We don't have a web shop and only sell face to face (for 99%) and our return rate is less than 0.05%. Our sales last May went for the first time over a quarter of a million Euro's in one month and Swarovski took the biggest part of that pie (which must say something about the so called NL deseases I read about lately). One sale takes a minimum of one hour and it is all about education, education and education.
If I understand my fellow dealers correctly the sales via the web shops is a <500,00 euro market. If a customer enters our shop with that budget and after education the >500,00 bin collection is showed most of them upgrade so it does not take a genius to understand that sales via web shops is a no brainer for a shop like us.
So there are two sides on the coin. The little local shop takes the glove and fight the price war with the big chain shops, which they can't win or take all the time for their customer and educate them, something the chain shops can't because they are good in one thing. Move boxes and they need that volume to stay alive.
Jan
Even when your sample is stolen after 5 years of use and you want the same model back. Even top optics have sample variations and it is a matter of trying to find out which one suits ones best. The only way to go through that route is the brick and mortar store.
We don't have a web shop and only sell face to face (for 99%) and our return rate is less than 0.05%. Our sales last May went for the first time over a quarter of a million Euro's in one month and Swarovski took the biggest part of that pie (which must say something about the so called NL deseases I read about lately). One sale takes a minimum of one hour and it is all about education, education and education.
If I understand my fellow dealers correctly the sales via the web shops is a <500,00 euro market. If a customer enters our shop with that budget and after education the >500,00 bin collection is showed most of them upgrade so it does not take a genius to understand that sales via web shops is a no brainer for a shop like us.
So there are two sides on the coin. The little local shop takes the glove and fight the price war with the big chain shops, which they can't win or take all the time for their customer and educate them, something the chain shops can't because they are good in one thing. Move boxes and they need that volume to stay alive.
Jan
foresttones
Well-known member
Update: my replacement 8x42 NLs arrived and are as perfect as anyone could want.
Glad to hear that forest. I'm hoping mine are the same when they arrive.
I just received a new pair of the 12 x 42 NL from B&H, today. They had been out of stock for about 6 weeks, so these are the latest production. I am very impressed with them. I already own the 8 x 42 NL that I purchased about 5 months ago, which were near perfect. As noted in earlier posts the focusing was perfect, but I had problems with the objective covers. I also noted, as did others, that rubber armor was a bit spongy in places. Well, the new pair is absolutely perfect, with silky smooth focusing, and no spongy armor. The objective covers, do not fit as tightly as those on my 8 x 42 NL, which is great. Time will tell if they are more durable, although they look the same.
I was pleasantly surprised by the new 12 x 42 NL. I actually thought I would be bothered by the lesser FOV and inability, perhaps, to hold the image steady. However, neither was a problem, even without the head rest, which I hadn't yet ordered, but I will. I find 12NL surprisingly just as comfortable to use as the 8 x, even though the exit pupil is smaller. I had expected not to like focusing more often, but the depth of field, even on an overcast day, is surprisingly good. It's not quite as good as with the 8 x 42 NL, but still quite good. The close focusing is a couple of feet more than the 8 x, but I really haven't noticed it being a problem. The more detailed image of 12x more than makes up for any of the lesser FOV which is still surprisingly good. I know somebody is going to ask if I am having any glare issues with the 12 x, even though I had none with the 8x. So far, so good,
Now you might ask, why did I buy another NL or need another NL. The truth is I don't need it, but I wanted to see what all the fuss was about with the 12x, and why it outsold all other versions. There no Swarovski dealers, anywhere near where I live. If you want to try one, you pretty much have to buy one. B&H has a liberal return policy that I thought, in a worse case, I might need to take advantage of it But, unfortunately, for my wallet, I won't. I just love the 12x and wonder, now, how much use the 8x NL is going to get. I don't want them to sit idle. My wife might use them. We'll see.
I was pleasantly surprised by the new 12 x 42 NL. I actually thought I would be bothered by the lesser FOV and inability, perhaps, to hold the image steady. However, neither was a problem, even without the head rest, which I hadn't yet ordered, but I will. I find 12NL surprisingly just as comfortable to use as the 8 x, even though the exit pupil is smaller. I had expected not to like focusing more often, but the depth of field, even on an overcast day, is surprisingly good. It's not quite as good as with the 8 x 42 NL, but still quite good. The close focusing is a couple of feet more than the 8 x, but I really haven't noticed it being a problem. The more detailed image of 12x more than makes up for any of the lesser FOV which is still surprisingly good. I know somebody is going to ask if I am having any glare issues with the 12 x, even though I had none with the 8x. So far, so good,
Now you might ask, why did I buy another NL or need another NL. The truth is I don't need it, but I wanted to see what all the fuss was about with the 12x, and why it outsold all other versions. There no Swarovski dealers, anywhere near where I live. If you want to try one, you pretty much have to buy one. B&H has a liberal return policy that I thought, in a worse case, I might need to take advantage of it But, unfortunately, for my wallet, I won't. I just love the 12x and wonder, now, how much use the 8x NL is going to get. I don't want them to sit idle. My wife might use them. We'll see.
According to a dealer, Jan, who participates on this forum, that was his experience. It could be that he is not typical, I suppose.
jan van daalen
Well-known member
OK, Jerry's remark made me take look at the current numbers of 2021.
If we take all NL's and compare it with the SF's than the SF scores <5% in volume.
As for the NL's, the 8x42 were fully available and the rest not and currently the 8x42 is also in the red (which means >4 weeks delivery time) same as the rest.
8x42 was the top seller and we put that volume on 100%. Second is the 10x42 at 50% compared to the 8x42.
Both 8 and 10x32 and the 12x42 bring 15% each on the table.
Should I mix the backorder list into it, the numbers shift in favor of the 32's and 12x42 but not near to the 8x42 dominance.
Jan
If we take all NL's and compare it with the SF's than the SF scores <5% in volume.
As for the NL's, the 8x42 were fully available and the rest not and currently the 8x42 is also in the red (which means >4 weeks delivery time) same as the rest.
8x42 was the top seller and we put that volume on 100%. Second is the 10x42 at 50% compared to the 8x42.
Both 8 and 10x32 and the 12x42 bring 15% each on the table.
Should I mix the backorder list into it, the numbers shift in favor of the 32's and 12x42 but not near to the 8x42 dominance.
Jan
Jan, I must have misunderstood your earlier remarks, last April. You did say, then, that the 12 x 42NL was outselling the others, which at the time, I thought rather surprising, given that I had first bought the 8 x 42NL, which caught everyone's attention, including mine, because of its record setting FOV, in addition to all the other improvements. Based on your earlier remarks, it would seem that there has been a reversal of the relative popularity of the 42NL versions?
These were your remarks last April:
"12x comes first by far. I would say it takes 60%, followed by the 10x at 30% and 8x with 10%.
Headrest is sold on almost every model because people just experience the difference.
FWIW, everybody wonders why it doesn't come within the package and with everybody I mean 99% of all customers.
100% of the buyers leave the shop with mixed feelings with their NL because all feel a bit disappointed to have to pay round 2.900,00 euro for their bin and have to pay 130,00 euro extra for something they feel that is a part of the bin.
Swarovski throws tons of money into the "we improve the best" marketing strategy but in this particular case the customer feels........stolen, so I would say it is counter productive.
Having said all this, sales figures of the the NLPure is one steep line uphill and demand is bigger compared to production.
Jan "
Jan,
Were you then quoting only your sales experience up to that time? Perhaps, now, you are quoting Swarovski's overall sales differences. Or has your 42 NL experience changed since this earlier quote?
I had to return my first pair of 10x42 NL Pure as a bit of swarf appeared in one lens barrel . I had noticed the focus wheel wasn't as buttery smooth as my brother in law's Zeiss Victory but not bad enough to return. It was worse if I applied forward pressure to the wheel while turning . Anyway when I got the 10x42s back I was surprised to find the focus wheel was much smoother. So if you have gone to the trouble of posting about it I would return them as focus wheel easily fixed and would restore your karma
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Hi BD,
What influences the sales numbers is how available a model is. The 12x was by far the best pré ordered model and when they came in they went out the same day. On a certain moment the 8x was the only fully available model for an long period where the other models only were delivered to the dealers on pré order basis (because Swaro under estimated the pré orders worldwide and no dealer could built up the regular stock).
The months May and June influenced all the numbers since the 8x was fully in stock and the others weren't.
I can only give the numbers as they turn out to be.
Jan
What influences the sales numbers is how available a model is. The 12x was by far the best pré ordered model and when they came in they went out the same day. On a certain moment the 8x was the only fully available model for an long period where the other models only were delivered to the dealers on pré order basis (because Swaro under estimated the pré orders worldwide and no dealer could built up the regular stock).
The months May and June influenced all the numbers since the 8x was fully in stock and the others weren't.
I can only give the numbers as they turn out to be.
Jan
It will be interesting to see how these numbers work out once there is equal availability of all versions. However!, that may never happen if Swarovski continues to limit producton on the 12x Nl, because it pre-supposes that there will be significantly less demand.
While it makes sense for Swarovski to compare popularity of different magnifications with prior models and gear their new production accordingly, the 12xNl is unquestionably a game changer from its higher power predecessors. It's better ergonomics, balance, and decent FOV, not to mention better optics, make the 12xNl a possible choice for people who previously wouldn't have considered using higher power optics. They thought perhaps a 12x binocular would require a tripod, or worried that it would be too finicky with eye placement, or the FOV would be so limiting as be viewing though a tunnel. I, for one, would never expected that the 12xNl would have been a viable choice, until I actually bought one and used it. Even at age 78, I find them easy to use and hand hold steady. I especially appreciate the enhanced details, that I didn't realize I was missing with the 8X Nl. Perhaps, if I was younger, I wouldn't.
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jcnguyen09
Well-known member
I found that within close distance said 100m or so, the NL 12x42 is amazing with the glorying details views and the FOV is wide enough and the shaking is not bad at all. The FRN helps as well, especially for glasses wearers like me!
tenex
reality-based
Concerning a $3k instrument, this is very difficult for me to believe. Who would think of paying so much for their second/third choice of magnification, apart from someone who intends eventually to buy both or all three? (Did I just answer my own question?)
"Concerning a $3k instrument, this is very difficult for me to believe. Who would think of paying so much for their second/third choice of magnification, apart from someone who intends eventually to buy both or all three? (Did I just answer my own question?)"
Tenex, is it possible you mis-read Jan? What I think he said was, given the uneven rollout of the NLs, people bought what Swaro shipped, was therefore available. It wont be till demand/inventory start to match up that what you're saying kicks in.... See it?
Tenex, is it possible you mis-read Jan? What I think he said was, given the uneven rollout of the NLs, people bought what Swaro shipped, was therefore available. It wont be till demand/inventory start to match up that what you're saying kicks in.... See it?
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