Fogging oculars...just NL's or all new production Swaros? (1 Viewer)

[Bentley03]

I have now experienced the (previously unnoticed by me, but well reported on this forum) massively increased susceptibility to fogging of NL's when subjected to...well...whatever it is, in terms of conditions, which is causing it, for some who view without glasses.

I have walked with several different brands, models and formats of binoculars recently, each time into darkness, and ONLY the oculars of my NL's have fogged up, rendering them unusable. I can't pinpoint specific conditions which might be causing this, just that my NL's are currently in the naughty corner and unlikely to be allowed out to play for the time being. Along with others who have experienced this, I'm not at all pleased about the situation.

I've only read reports online of NL's being rendered useless by this 'phenomenon', not other models. Is there any evidence that new production EL's, Companions, Pockets, Curios or Kahles Helia S (I'm particularly interested to know about the KHS) all suffer from this fogging affliction?

Thanks, James

and a VERY Happy New Year to all!

 

[Jason Bugay Reyes]

I have now experienced the (previously unnoticed by me, but well reported on this forum) massively increased susceptibility to fogging of NL's when subjected to...well...whatever it is, in terms of conditions, which is causing it, for some who view without glasses.

I have walked with several different brands, models and formats of binoculars recently, each time into darkness, and ONLY the oculars of my NL's have fogged up, rendering them unusable. I can't pinpoint specific conditions which might be causing this, just that my NL's are currently in the naughty corner and unlikely to be allowed out to play for the time being. Along with others who have experienced this, I'm not at all pleased about the situation.

I've only read reports online of NL's being rendered useless by this 'phenomenon', not other models. Is there any evidence that new production EL's, Companions, Pockets, Curios or Kahles Helia S (I'm particularly interested to know about the KHS) all suffer from this fogging affliction?

Thanks, James

and a VERY Happy New Year to all!

Was it on the surface or inside the barrels?

 

[agus_m]

I think it might be the hydrophobic coating that the newer NL Pure no longer have for environment reasons

 

[PYRTLE]

I've only read reports online of NL's being rendered useless by this 'phenomenon', not other models. Is there any evidence that new production EL's, Companions, Pockets, Curios or Kahles Helia S (I'm particularly interested to know about the KHS) all suffer from this fogging affliction?

Thanks, James

and a VERY Happy New Year to all!

Slight exaggeration to say they're useless! And its not a modern issue with just Swaros either. Whatever happened to the old and easy art of gently breathing on them and carefully wiping them with a cloth...worked for us old fogeys in the days before fancy coatings. Modern birders are sometimes over fussy.

 

[Harry Stottle]

Slight exaggeration to say they're useless! And its not a modern issue with just Swaros either. Whatever happened to the old and easy art of gently breathing on them and carefully wiping them with a cloth...worked for us old fogeys in the days before fancy coatings. Modern birders are sometimes over fussy.

Leica says breathing on lenses damages them:

How to Clean Your Lenses – Lens Cleaning Tutorial

window._epn = {campaign:5338005881}; How to Clean Your Lenses – Lens Cleaning Tutorial Most people learn things about their cameras and lenses even about photography from what we hear and see around us. Sometimes, we don’t even question them, instead, accept those things as the way to do them...

leica-review.com

 

[AuntySocial]

I have this with mine. Tends to happen beyond 30 seconds of viewing when it's cold out. I don't wear glasses and prefer to have the eyecups fully extended. However, I find if I wind them in a notch they are much less likely to fog up.

 

[wllmspd]

Leica says breathing on lenses damages them:

How to Clean Your Lenses – Lens Cleaning Tutorial

window._epn = {campaign:5338005881}; How to Clean Your Lenses – Lens Cleaning Tutorial Most people learn things about their cameras and lenses even about photography from what we hear and see around us. Sometimes, we don’t even question them, instead, accept those things as the way to do them...

leica-review.com

Well an article from someone who reviews Leica lenses says so. You want to avoid anything scratchy or that could accidentally drag grit across a lens and avoid solvents that could attack the paint around a lens, but otherwise breath and the other materials companies provide should be fine. Modern coatings are typically much more resistant to damage. The reviewer notes mold… which comes from storing optics is cool and damp conditions, some people store their optics in sealed boxes with desiccant if they are worried about this in their climate.’

You can buy “anti fog” spray if you get this a lot, it temporarily leaves a film on the lens that does affect the view, but stops the water condensing.

 

[Tringa45]

Leica says breathing on lenses damages them:

How to Clean Your Lenses – Lens Cleaning Tutorial

window._epn = {campaign:5338005881}; How to Clean Your Lenses – Lens Cleaning Tutorial Most people learn things about their cameras and lenses even about photography from what we hear and see around us. Sometimes, we don’t even question them, instead, accept those things as the way to do them...

leica-review.com

This is not Leica, but an amateur photographer who thinks alcohol or condensed human breath is going to attack lens coatings!

Btw, I think it highly unlikely that the thermal conductivity of the NL eye lenses would differ significantly from those of other binoculars.
Fogging would be caused by temperature and humidity differences indoors/outdoors and perhaps by the proximity of the user's eyes and ventilation of the eyecups.

John

 

[mwhogue]

Btw, I think it highly unlikely that the thermal conductivity of the NL eye lenses would differ significantly from those of other binoculars.
Fogging would be caused by temperature and humidity differences indoors/outdoors and perhaps by the proximity of the user's eyes and ventilation of the eyecups.

That's my experience with all my older and newer bins. On the high end, Leica seems slightly more susceptible to fogging than others. For me it happens when it's warm and humid and when cold and dry.

Mike

 

[Fisherofbees]

Sadly my NL 10x42's have this problem, as well as continuing focus wheel stiffness issues after being out in the rain - I love the glass, but I've been forced to look for alternative Bins for cold/wet weather. Disappointing

 

[Harry Stottle]

@wllmspd and @Tringa45
I thought it was an official Leica video! I wondered why the speaker looked more like an all-in wrestler than an optical system designer.

@PYRTLE said: 'Whatever happened to the old and easy art of gently breathing on them and carefully wiping them with a cloth...worked for us old fogeys in the days before fancy coatings. Modern birders are sometimes over fussy.'

Actually, that is what I do! I thought I was on the naughty step for doing so.

 

[Maljunulo]

I have a great deal of trouble believing that eye lens fogging is unique to any particular binocular or manufacturer.

 

[Scott98]

I have a great deal of trouble believing that eye lens fogging is unique to any particular binocular or manufacturer.

yes, it's a big problem in winter astronomy and it occurs because of short eye relief and/or an eyecup that restricts air flow. i.e. it's usually worse in binos with short eye relief. If the NL has long eye relief I might try dialing down the eyecup height a notch or two to to let more air circulate. And of course you must avoid breathing onto eye lenses in cold weather or they'll fog instantly.....

And I always remind people - if you'd like the toxic PFAS chemicals on your lenses you can pick up some anti-fog cloths and wipe it on. Keeping in mind that if any gets into your body it will take decades for your liver to process it out and it's highly toxic.....yes, that nagging "environmental" stuff again - you know, the cancer and neurological disease epidemic - so annoying isn't it?

 

[claves_10]

No, It is true that NL eye pieces fog quite rapid .....BUT well.... does not make them unusable. Suppose Has to do with the coatings.
You go up the mountain, sweeting, you face is hot as....hell.. then the eye oculars fog in couple of seconds.
Solution ...shorter views till you relax and stop sweating ....come on. I would like perfect thing BUT are we going to complaint about everything or minor issue? well that is your right sorry to give my opinion in this thread.

 

[wllmspd]

Although not binocular related, the picture near the bottom of this page shows that modern glass coating are rather tough and so you don’t need to worry too much about them. Quality
Older optics with older, softer coatings are still worth being careful with. Of course there are other options, like that divers use , The science of spitting in your mask

 

[Bentley03]

I have a great deal of trouble believing that eye lens fogging is unique to any particular binocular or manufacturer.

Mal, I agree, 100%, but believe me, what I (and others who have experience of using NL's without glasses have also acknowledged on this thread and elsewhere on BF) know for sure, is that in certain conditions, for some users, NL's do indeed fog up not just a little bit quicker than the majority of higher end binoculars, but a lot quicker. This is FACT.

Yes, the amount of time before the fogging on the oculars renders the binocular 'useless' and 'unusable' can be reduced by lowering the eyecups a few notches, but they still fog far more rapidly than an Ultravid, a Noctivid, an SF, an EDG, a Habicht, a Genesis, an EII, and any number of sub alphas and older designs of binoculars without the latest coatings. I know, because I do actually own and have used all of these without glasses over this winter period. The three different formats of NL's I've used have all misted up significantly faster than the other binoculars mentioned above. My original question regarding the susceptibility of other Swaro models to this 'phenomenon', was to try to ascertain whether it was down to eyecup design and materials (plastic vs metal), or the apparent hydrophilic coatings on the NL's lenses. I think John's reply might come closest to explaining what causes the issue.

My habit at this time of year is to walk for several hours in the afternoon and into darkness. It is at dusk into darkness in particular, when owling, that the issue with the NL's becomes most apparent. You'll understand if I say that suggestions of lowering the binoculars from my eyes, breathing on them and gently wiping the lenses with a cloth, under a dark sky, might feel sarcastic, condescending and unhelpful, when my own context is of trying to follow a bird on the wing for a period of time in excess of 30-45 seconds. These experiences are precious, and if your binoculars let you down, it's annoying and frustrating.

I'll add that I was also aware of surprisingly rapid misting of the NL oculars when walking out from the warm environment of my home onto a balcony and far colder environment, in order to set the dioptre to allow me to use the binoculars without glasses. I thought nothing more about it, until I experienced the same phenomenon at dusk in the field, having used them without issue for the first couple of hours of my walk. Dew point, therefore, is likely another factor affecting the rapid fogging of the NL's oculars.

Finally, whilst the oculars are fogging, I find the left ocular fogs up more rapidly than the right. My left eye has a shiny new lens, following cataract surgery, my right eye still carries the original. Hmmmm...

 

[Ignatius]

Afaik Zeiss offer an anti-fogging spray. No idea whether it will work on premier league Swaros though ...

 

[wllmspd]

Zeiss spray should work on anything, I used some on some porros once and it seemed to work OK. My E2 have fogged up internally a few times… no wiping will remove that, just patience. Now I have some sealed and purged binos for those weather conditions.

Peter

 

[AuntySocial]

Finally, whilst the oculars are fogging, I find the left ocular fogs up more rapidly than the right.

Interesting, I found this with mine too.

 

[Maljunulo]

Mal, I agree, 100%, but believe me, what I (and others who have experience of using NL's without glasses have also acknowledged on this thread and elsewhere on BF) know for sure, is that in certain conditions, for some users, NL's do indeed fog up not just a little bit quicker than the majority of higher end binoculars, but a lot quicker. This is FACT.

Yes, the amount of time before the fogging on the oculars renders the binocular 'useless' and 'unusable' can be reduced by lowering the eyecups a few notches, but they still fog far more rapidly than an Ultravid, a Noctivid, an SF, an EDG, a Habicht, a Genesis, an EII, and any number of sub alphas and older designs of binoculars without the latest coatings. I know, because I do actually own and have used all of these without glasses over this winter period. The three different formats of NL's I've used have all misted up significantly faster than the other binoculars mentioned above. My original question regarding the susceptibility of other Swaro models to this 'phenomenon', was to try to ascertain whether it was down to eyecup design and materials (plastic vs metal), or the apparent hydrophilic coatings on the NL's lenses. I think John's reply might come closest to explaining what causes the issue.

My habit at this time of year is to walk for several hours in the afternoon and into darkness. It is at dusk into darkness in particular, when owling, that the issue with the NL's becomes most apparent. You'll understand if I say that suggestions of lowering the binoculars from my eyes, breathing on them and gently wiping the lenses with a cloth, under a dark sky, might feel sarcastic, condescending and unhelpful, when my own context is of trying to follow a bird on the wing for a period of time in excess of 30-45 seconds. These experiences are precious, and if your binoculars let you down, it's annoying and frustrating.

I'll add that I was also aware of surprisingly rapid misting of the NL oculars when walking out from the warm environment of my home onto a balcony and far colder environment, in order to set the dioptre to allow me to use the binoculars without glasses. I thought nothing more about it, until I experienced the same phenomenon at dusk in the field, having used them without issue for the first couple of hours of my walk. Dew point, therefore, is likely another factor affecting the rapid fogging of the NL's oculars.

Finally, whilst the oculars are fogging, I find the left ocular fogs up more rapidly than the right. My left eye has a shiny new lens, following cataract surgery, my right eye still carries the original. Hmmmm...

I don’t doubt a word that you say, and I guess we’ll have to fall back on “The surface properties of the eye lenses must be different.” (There's the mysterious and all-encompassing “somehow” lurking in there)

I doubt Swarovski will be telling us how.