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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hannu" data-source="post: 1255250" data-attributes="member: 19244">When I have now more fresh eyes (I took a short sleep) and my brain is perhaps more sharp, I’ll analyse my first opinion and why I got my (wrong) conclusion. I have to say that even my opinion was strongly on behalf of juv Reed Warbler, there were at least two-three things, which disturbed me in the first time; the leg colour (juv Reed has paler legs, but fits exactly to adult Garden), the colour of upperparts (juv Reed has rich warm rusty/reddish brown upperparts, this kind of darker greyish colour fits better to adult Garden) and the weakness of supercilium (it’s usually more sharp-edged in Reed than this bird, even when it’s rich (rusty) coloured in juv Reed). 1) ”First of all, it looks very interesting individual, which has at least almost a full grown wings. Thus that indicate that the bill is also almost full length too. ”> I took too seriously that juvenile suggestion, mentioned by Mole1 (#5), which also CAU accepted in #7, and even Motmot (#10) accepted in some level. KN doupted rightly this age identification (#11). Although the wing tips seems to be rather good condition (I based my age opinion on this feature), the primaries are still not a fresh and thus those white tips are almost wear out. I also thought my tired brains that the bill was behind the reed, so my thinking went to the wrong direction. The bird is indeed sligthly worn adult with messy plumage. Some juv birds can have also rather similar messy plumage, but e.g. the colour is deeper and richer than this case. 2) ”Even this bird has a little bit phyllocs face (especially very rounded head, which perhaps due to adjusted neck), Phyllosc-option can rule out e.g. the number of primary tips (this case has obviously 9, phyllocs has 7 or so), the supposed shape of tail (most propably rounded), the eye size (looks relatively bigger than small sized Phyllosc eyes), the lenght of primary projection (looks relative long, almost same lenght as the lenght of tertials, which can be also in Willow, but tail projection perhaps too long for Willow), obvious one emargination (p8) etc.”> Perhaps only thing which can be questionable in this list is the supposed shape of tail. Even the outermost tail feather seems to be shorter than inner ones, we can not be sure on this feature in this pic. Besides there was one mistake (9 primary tips should be 8, of course). 3) ”According to the Garden Warbler, the shape of bill does not fit to that species (should be heavier base than this case and more curved upper edge of upper mandible), neither tail projection (tail looks too long compared to the length of the trailing edge of wing), the number of primary tips is usually at most 8 in this species, etc…So I think that Reed Warbler is a good option for this case. Only one disturbing detail for Reed is perhaps the colour of legs, which should be paler in juvenile, but it can due to photo too…”> I did not realise in my tired eyes that bill was entirely seen in the pic. I just focused too much only bill without recognising that those reeds are behind the bird. That was the main reason, why I supposed that the bill is longer than what we seeing in photo. So the base of the bill is indeed enough strong compared to the lenght of bill for being Garden W (see the photo in the last link of this post). Tail projection is rather long for being Garden, but perhaps position of the alert bird is not the best situation to estimate that. The number of primary tips is same in both species, thus 8 as it corrected earlier. So after all, the best choice is Garden Warbler, which also have brown outer edges of wing feathers. To conclude I’ll give some comments about CAU’s list (#12):a)    clearly dark lores with a clear supercilium in front of the eye. >    sc is clear only in the half of lores (near the eye)>    According to the dark lores, Garden Warbler can be even darker lores, but usually they are pale.       If you’ll compare follow links, you’ll see how superc and the colour of lores differs between sides in this individual (although it can also partly due to photo angle).> <a href="http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Tenovuo/lehtokerttu_05_Uusikaupunki_10_07.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Tenovuo/lehtokerttu_05_Uusikaupunki_10_07.jpg</a>>    <a href="http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Tenovuo/lehtokerttu_02_Uusikaupunki_10_07.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Tenovuo/lehtokerttu_02_Uusikaupunki_10_07.jpg</a>b)    The orbital ring is quite thin. On Garden Warblers the orbital ring dominates the facial expression. >    This is usually true, but varies in some level.c)    Secondly, the tertials are dark centered with warm brown edges. The tertials of Garden Warblers have white tips (unless worn), and lack dark centres. >    Indeed, we can read these details in this way, but we have to be really cautious from this photo angle. But because this bird is worn adult, it lacks white tips. d)    Thirdly, the longest tertial extends to the tips of the secondaries. On Garden Warblers the longest tertial extends further than the secondaries. >    But longest tertial of worn bird can extend only to the tip of the secondaries. e)    Fourthly, Garden Warblers have dark (brown or grey) undersides of the toes. The subject bird very clearly has a yellow underside of the hind toe. >    If CAU refers to the left leg, it can be also mixed reflection of sun and green leaves…anyhow I’m not very convinced in this feature in this case.f)    Fifthly, the bill is structurally wrong for a Garden Warbler, being too thin.>    see my comment about the bill above. Rather similar Garden Warbler as in this case in the follow link:<a href="http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Roope/syl_bor_web_8986.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Roope/syl_bor_web_8986.jpg</a></blockquote>

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