French Harrier (1 Viewer)

[Giroud Marc]

I'd like to submit you, this interesting french "Hen harrier" type... IMO, this bird present several traits who can indicate an hybrid origine. Maybe Montagu's X Hen ?

Thanks in advance for all your comments.

Marc

 

[Andy Adcock]

Not just an immature male then?

Immature male Montagu's Harrier (Circus pygargus) perched on the ground on Lesvos, Greece Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Immature male Montagu's Harrier (Circus pygargus) perched on the ground on Lesvos, Greece, - T7HXC9 from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Very boldly marked.

5 obvious primaries rules both out I believe. Perhaps a hybrid, but if seen recently, would a 1cy male Northern be a contender?

 

[Andy Adcock]

5 obvious primaries rules both out I believe. Perhaps a hybrid, but if seen recently, would a 1cy male Northern be a contender?

See my edit, just a first year male 'Monty's?

 

[dwatsonbirder]

See my edit, just a first year male 'Monty's?

It could be, but I thought the wing seems a bit broad, and shouldn't the axillaries be barred? I'd be interested in what Tom etc have to say.

 

[tconzemi]

I will have better time this evening, for the moment I'm struggling seeing anything else but first winter male Hen Harrier

 

[Giroud Marc]

Thanks for your comments. The picture was taken early december. Too late for a Monty, and as "dwatsonbirder" said the primaries are wrong for this hypothesis. The hypothesis of a first winter male Hen Harrier was the first idea of the observer who saw this bird. But, I never saw and I cannot find any picture of a first winter male Hen Harrier with this large black primaries tip.

 

[KenM]

Could it be a 1st/2nd Winter Male H.Harrier, I understand 3 years for males to mature (might explain the seemingly dark primaries?).

Cheers

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Thanks for your comments. The picture was taken early december. Too late for a Monty, and as "dwatsonbirder" said the primaries are wrong for this hypothesis. The hypothesis of a first winter male Hen Harrier was the first idea of the observer who saw this bird. But, I never saw and I cannot find any picture of a first winter male Hen Harrier with this large black primaries tip.

Hope you don’t mind but I reduced the shadows on your image a bit.

A few thoughts to which Tom may elaborate or correct later:

I see

• a perfect 5 fingered wing formula for Hen Harrier - note the lengths of p6 ruling out Montagu’s or Pallid
• The underwing shows 3 very broad secondary bars (inc trailing edge) extending to flanks diagnostic for Hen Harrier
• Juvenile plumage (1w) showing no signs of wear or moult, with the pale iris indicating male

As far as the primaries - juvenile males can show reduced barring or only very faint barring cf to females which leaves the issue of how dark they are. I think this is a product of the photo. I have reduced the shadows and the primaries look ok to me for juve male HH.

(as I said, hopefully Tom can elaborate or correct the above)

 

[tconzemi]

I see

• a perfect 5 fingered wing formula for Hen Harrier - note the lengths of p6 ruling out Montagu’s or Pallid
• The underwing shows 3 very broad secondary bars (inc trailing edge) extending to flanks diagnostic for Hen Harrier
• Juvenile plumage (1w) showing no signs of wear or moult, with the pale iris indicating male

As far as the primaries - juvenile males can show reduced barring or only very faint barring cf to females which leaves the issue of how dark they are. I think this is a product of the photo. I have reduced the shadows and the primaries look ok to me for juve male HH.

I fully agree with Deb an just wanted to check the excellent paper on sexing and aging of HH by Gerold Dobler (Kornweihe Alters- und Geschlechtsbestimmung, Zeiss Edition zu Feldornithologie, Ausgabe 1, 2020); I attach page 16, picture 23 showing an almost identical juvenile male

 

[Giroud Marc]

Ok ! Always learning !

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Ok ! Always learning !

Me too 😊

 

[Mike Earp]

I fully agree with Deb an just wanted to check the excellent paper on sexing and aging of HH by Gerold Dobler (Kornweihe Alters- und Geschlechtsbestimmung, Zeiss Edition zu Feldornithologie, Ausgabe 1, 2020); I attach page 16, picture 23 showing an almost identical juvenile male

This paper is available online in English and German (just free registration required).

 

[Deb Burhinus]

This paper is available online in English and German (just free registration required).

Annoyingly, the paper was distributed with the 2020 July edition of BB but not included in it.

New publication about Hen Harrier identification | European Raptors: Biology and Conservation

Because I only subscribe to the e version of BB, I didn’t receive this.🙁

It would be nice to get hold of a hard copy.