• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

FUJINON HC (Hyper-Clarity) new roof prism binos (1 Viewer)

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Where did you see this? In the graphic that illustrates the binocular features it states "water repellent coat" for the objectives and oculars.

So it does, although the photo of the bino at the beginning of the article has water droplets on the objectives of a size that could be expected to run off some other hydrophobic coatings.

Lee
 

Gilmore Girl

Beth
Supporter
United States
So it does, although the photo of the bino at the beginning of the article has water droplets on the objectives of a size that could be expected to run off some other hydrophobic coatings.

Lee

I think that's just illustration to convey people can feel confident using it in all weather (water proofed). Just a hunch, but the rain droplets may have been added as graphics (not real water).
 

WJC

Well-known member
So it does, although the photo of the bino at the beginning of the article has water droplets on the objectives of a size that could be expected to run off some other hydrophobic coatings.

Lee

I hope I am wrong. However, I'm giving the product 3 years to pack'em in, and another year to liquidate ... no pun intented. :cat:

Bill
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
I think that's just illustration to convey people can feel confident using it in all weather (water proofed). Just a hunch, but the rain droplets may have been added as graphics (not real water).

You could be right GiGi, the water does look creepily even, but it doesn't make people feel confident about the hydrophobic coating, although there is a hint on the left-hand objective (the one on the right in the photo) that a droplet has run down the lens.

Love your autumnal avatar.

Lee
 

John A Roberts

Well-known member
Australia
Assuming the specifications are correct (they’re from Ries’ link in post #4), the most notable physical aspect of the HC’s is their short length at 137 or 139 mm/ 5.4 or 5.5 ins

So they’re fractionally shorter than the notably compact Leica Ultravid HD's. My 8x42 is exactly the listed length of 142 mm / 5.6 ins with the eyecups retracted
See a comparative image of the Leica along with Zeiss and Swarovski 8x42's from Tobias at: http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/index.html


John
 

Attachments

  • HC 8x42.jpg
    HC 8x42.jpg
    95.3 KB · Views: 617
  • HC 10x42.jpg
    HC 10x42.jpg
    99.4 KB · Views: 604
  • 8x42 comparative.jpg
    8x42 comparative.jpg
    133.7 KB · Views: 50

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
I really wish that folks taking the pictures of different bins would line them all up at the eyepiece end with the eye cups fully retracted. This would give us all a common reference point, and handily show the position of the focusing wheels relative to one another, and where along the length of the bins ....... :)







Chosun :gh:
 

dries1

Member
Fuji

I hope I am wrong. However, I'm giving the product 3 years to pack'em in, and another year to liquidate ... no pun intented. :cat:

Bill

This funny and probably true. By the way does anyone know what they cost, or what the likely asking price will be?.

Andy W.
 

Gilmore Girl

Beth
Supporter
United States
I hope I am wrong. However, I'm giving the product 3 years to pack'em in, and another year to liquidate ... no pun intented. :cat:

Bill

You may be wrong based on being "Hyper-negative" … or, you may be right based on your enhanced "Hyper-foresight".

Will this binocular be "Hyper-crap" :-C or "Hyper-cool" :t: ?

… tune in November …

Hyper Drive !
 

Foss

Well-known member
I like Fujinon Porros a lot, but IDK about what I've read so far regarding this new offering.
ED glass, phase coated, 7.4° FOV (8x42): Is it the year 2010 again?
 

WJC

Well-known member
You may be wrong based on being "Hyper-negative" … or, you may be right based on your enhanced "Hyper-foresight".

Will this binocular be "Hyper-crap" :-C or "Hyper-cool" :t: ?

… tune in November …

Hyper Drive !

I am a longtime Fujinon fan, so, I will offer where my comment came from.

Several years ago, the Zeiss USA Regional VP and my Zeiss rep showed up in my optics showroom in Seattle. The first words spoken were:

Zeiss: “What do you think of our NEW Night Owl?

BC: “I’ll give it 2 years.”

Zeiss: “What do you mean?”

BC: “I think it will be a viable product for about 2 years.”

Zeiss: “Why would you say that?”

Zeiss “What’s wrong with it?”

BC: “It’s too big and clunky, the eyecups are strange, and the focus mechanism is almost useless and—and if you’re wearing gloves—it’s completely useless.”

After this exchange, we spent time discussing the other 7 models we had in the display cases—winners all.

Two years later, I was invited—along with other Zeiss dealers in the region—to Portland to see a presentation of their new Victory series binoculars. One dealer asked what had happened to the Night Owl. The Zeiss rep replied: “It’s been discontinued.”

Then, I asked, “How long was it available?”

Zeiss answered: “Two Years.”

To get his attention, I asked: “How long did you say?”

Zeiss Answered: “About ... two ... years.” As he answered, we made eye-contact and I could see he was remembering our meeting of two years prior. Then, as now, I was a big Zeiss fan. But I think they should pay more attention to their knowledgeable front-line dealers than their accountants and engineers.

While one might think I pick on the Big Three too much. I don’t. I just recognize that paying their people what they are worth has caused them to paint themselves into a financial corner. The Asians have stood on their shoulders, reverse engineered, and developed some world-class optical engineers of their own. It’s why I have often said that today one can buy 95-97% of European quality for 50-60% of the price. It’s not that I no longer love the Big Three’s products. It’s just that I love the truth a little more. :cat:

PS It did get movie time. It's on the dashboard of the arrogant storm chaser in TWISTER.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2020-08-08 at 3.05.58 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2020-08-08 at 3.05.58 PM.jpg
    43.8 KB · Views: 41
Last edited:

Ries

Well-known member
So you've proved your individual superiority by a Zeiss example in a Fujinon thread? Wut?! Your fundamental insecurity shines through like crazy, bill...
 

WJC

Well-known member
So you've proved your individual superiority by a Zeiss example in a Fujinon thread? Wut?! Your fundamental insecurity shines through like crazy, bill...

I have many friends from your country. Yet, none of them would be so bold. I hold all those companies in high esteem. Still, I just offered an example. But, after having been in the industry for over 50 years, having repaired, restored, and/or collimated over 12,000 binoculars, having designed 2 telescopes, and having lectured optical Ph.D.s, I think I have the wherewithal to make others aware of some of the realities I’ve dealt with without the need to be made to feel insecure. My age and health are handling that quite handily.

Now that you have pumped your ego at my expense ... have a great day. :cat:

Bill

PS I think we would all be interested in YOUR experience and credentials in optics that would give you need to be critical of my anecdote.
 

Gilmore Girl

Beth
Supporter
United States
Hi Bill (post 30),

I think I recall that Zeiss story. Nothing wrong with giving them your honest opinion.

What do you see that's problematic with this new Fuji HC bino in your professional opinion?
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
I hope I am wrong. However, I'm giving the product 3 years to pack'em in, and another year to liquidate ... no pun intented. :cat:

Hi Bill (post 30),

I think I recall that Zeiss story. Nothing wrong with giving them your honest opinion.

What do you see that's problematic with this new Fuji HC bino in your professional opinion?

When I read Bill's post I thought - that won't be too far from the mark. I will let Bill speak for himself, but these were a few of my immediate impressions.

It's difficult to offer a final opinion without having held them and viewed through them, but what can they possibly offer ? They are just ordinary, and will be lost in a sea of ordinariness.

With what we are doing to this world (over consuming it at the expense of the very planet that supports our lives) , I find yet another lackluster product - very depressing :-C

This Fujinon product is hardly Robinson Crusoe in this regard - the world is full of them (and worse - boatloads of just outright junk, or disproportionate damage done for the sake of dollars, etc). Perhaps it's an important binocular for the Fujinon company ? Perhaps anything is better than nothing ? Who knows ?

But if you are going to bother getting out of bed in the morning - then why not make it count ? Why not strive for people to go Wow ! when they see your product badge out in the 'wild' , instead of yet another 'meh' .........

Not every product can be a Swarovski NL (next level) , and it's okay not to push all the boundaries - but for goodness sake - make the standard spec in someway memorable (for reasons other than being forgettable .... !)

In this case, obviously a compact full size bino has been targeted. So why on earth is it 5Oz heavier than a Nikon MHG ? Why not 2Oz (or more) less ?When your optical spec is ordinary, weight, precision, ergonomics, quality, etc are areas to target to stand out - to push the boundaries enough in that area to be memorable.

A compact full-size bin will also have difficulty handling CA. Merely putting an unspecified 'ED' glass in (usually the objectives) won't necessarily cure that. I think the market is at a point where even in mid tier offerings it is not unreasonable to expect FL (or equivalent) glass and commensurate optical design to put those Chromatic Aberrations to bed well enough for people to make positive mention of it. If a company is going to go to the trouble of doing that, then it will be shouting it from the rooftops -- not just making a run of the mill 'ED' glass/CA minimized claim.

ER may also be a bit marginal in the 10x for ol' 'four eyes' like me - you can't afford to lose any of that perfunctory level Fov, and it will be interesting to see how the claims of corrected to the edge of the modest Fov stack up .......

That's just a couple of thoughts, I'm sure there are more ! :)

NB: For the others who have cast aspersions on Bill's comments and motivations - quit it ! You are out of line - way out of line. Very poor form.







Chosun :gh:

P.S. Good find on this new upcoming bin GiGi !
 

WJC

Well-known member
Hi Bill (post 30),

I think I recall that Zeiss story. Nothing wrong with giving them your honest opinion.

What do you see that's problematic with this new Fuji HC bino in your professional opinion?

Hi, GG,

Thanks for coming without your guns blazing. I sometimes feel like Doc Holliday walking through a room full of young guns.

My “professional” opinion is based only on track records. Over the last half a century—to keep the “snowflakes” happy—we have traded WHAT WORKS for WHAT SOUNDS GOOD. It’s like wrecking the car to turn the radio off. The truth is not always popular. However, it is always the truth. The problem for me is that if you know what you’re talking about and speak it boldly enough to make sure the 2% who care pay attention, you are going to be lambasted by those who think their transient opinions—that came from an opinion factory or a campfire chat—should trump fact.

The first attachment (BF 1) is of an 84-year old Zeiss product. It belongs to Michael O’Gara of New York City. It has 28 parts—none of which are plastic. I talked to Michael last month. BF 2 is what I returned to him. He is still proud of the showpiece that is giving him an excellent image. I’m sending BF 3—his letter of appreciation—just to give the angry snowflakes on BirdForum a chance to blow the gunk out of their arteries. Hey, ‘just trying to be helpful.

BF 4 is an exploded version of a currently popular binocular. It shows 173 parts, almost every one, plastic. Where to you think it will be in 20 years, tops? And, do you think there might be an over abundance of places for things to go wrong?

Some people see complexity as meaning superior. It usually means the opposite. Ask technicians who work on cars, boats, tanks, aircraft, TVs, or sewing machines. Top of the line Fujinon binoculars are among the best in the world. However, they rebrand a good many products.

Looking at the specs of the new product, I’m impressed. But I look at it from the standpoint of whether it was designed to raise the bar of the industry or to add something NEW to the line up to get a bigger market share with those with more money than common sense. Am I saying the prior is not true? I certainly am not! I’m just saying I will let it have a few years on the market before I will form my judgement.

Being deep into the marine market when Steiner started all the “Auto-focus” garbage, that so many who slept through 7th through 11th grade bought into, I was probably the first to blow the whistle.

“Common sense is so rare today; it’s considered a superpower.” — Dave Ramsey

Even the electronic auto-focus Minolta of the 1990s had a very short lifespan. Suppose you wanted to watch the start of a bike race and used one. You were wanting to see your nephew on bike #6, but the auto-focus mechanism went through noisy gyrations while focusing for a fraction of a second on bike 6, then bike 8, then bike 2, then bike 10, then ....

I was a Minolta dealer. And although they had several fine products, this “auto-focus” binocular was not one and I told my customers so. Believing a good customer was more important than a good sale, my need to train always outshone my need for a sale.

Standing up for what I know is right it is not always popular. It is, however, always right.

“You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.” — Winston Churchill

“Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.” — Aristotle

and

“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson

PS Giving Zeiss the truth did not surprise them or offend them. For years, I had a working relationship with US Navy Senior Chief Opticalman, Warren Nuckols, the Zeiss US repair manager and Walter Bennenmatter at Zeiss in Germany
 

Attachments

  • BF 1.jpg
    BF 1.jpg
    184.7 KB · Views: 48
  • BF 2.jpg
    BF 2.jpg
    657 KB · Views: 37
  • BF 3.jpg
    BF 3.jpg
    222.7 KB · Views: 41
  • BF 4.jpg
    BF 4.jpg
    154.3 KB · Views: 56
Last edited:

Ries

Well-known member
Hey Bill, I want to apologize for my attitude towards you. Usually I won't let myself be triggered by you (or anyone), but I wasn't fully in control yesterday evening and went out of line. I'm sorry for that.

It's a high probability Fujinon won't deliver legendary iconic binoculars with this line. But wouldn't it be nice if they would be good or even high quality, even it will be for just two years :)
 

WJC

Well-known member
Hey Bill, I want to apologize for my attitude towards you. Usually I won't let myself be triggered by you (or anyone), but I wasn't fully in control yesterday evening and went out of line. I'm sorry for that.

It's a high probability Fujinon won't deliver legendary iconic binoculars with this line. But wouldn't it be nice if they would be good or even high quality, even it will be for just two years :)

Hi, Yer Chosen Juaness,

Thank you so much for supporting my efforts. It is refreshing to know that one more person understands me!

And, Richard,

Your apology was certainly appreciated, and I thank you. It would be nice if others would take the same tact—“brain in gear before fingers in motion.” But I chose the path I walk. I know of another fellow who did infinitely more for infinitely less appreciation. He did so because it was the right thing to do expecting infinitely less in return.

Doing what I do—the way I do it—I realize I keep myself in jeopardy. Years ago, I was counseled about coming to binocular forums; I was even called names and laughed at. And most of those who did were friends ... some of many years! They’re all still my friends because they understand the WHYs of the actions. I come to bino forums because they refuse to do so.

Why is understanding binos and the binocular market important? It bloody well ... IS NOT! But some people seem to think it is a reason to be. It is for those folks I try to supplant decades-old myths and save them money that they not let their BB stacking cost them too dearly—you can’t fill a glass with water that’s already filled with mud.

I think every person who draws a breath should strive to leave the planet a little better than when he or she found it. There are very FEW ways in which I can rise to that occasion. Although I have done optical engineering for some notable concerns, Yerkes Observatory, NASA, C. Plath Navigation, Orion Telescopes and Binoculars (when Tim Geisler owned it), I am MILES from the optical smarts of the least of those mentioned above. But when it comes to binocular repair, collimation, and the workings of the industry, they are usually out of their league. According to a national survey, the average 20-year old, today, will, before he retires, have 3 careers and 8 jobs. It’s hard to become an expert in any field with that kind of vacillation. My interest in optics started at the age of eight and has only grown.

Regardless of your intentions, if you know your stuff and are not afraid to share it without feeling the need to candy coat it, you will be drawing a bull’s eye on your back. Ed Huff, Gijs, Holger, and others could put me to shame. Yet, having more intelligence than me, they choose not to have that target on their backs and say very little. I will explain more in Bino Thoughts # 5. And it will be pertinent to the cause. For now, let it suffice to say that I care for all who put binoculars to their eyes, I’ve seen much they should want to know, and I am willing to suffer the “slings and arrows” to make it so. Even for ... Richard. :t: :cat:

Cheers,

Bill
 

Kevin Conville

yardbirder
Well I'm intrigued with this new Fuji bin, for no other reason than it's a new Fuji bin. I'm always interested in what Fuji is up to and though they certainly have swung and missed before, when they get things right...bingo!

If this is an in-house Japanese product, then I have high expectations.
To the uninitiated, Fuji makes some of the best consumer and professional optical products available, full stop.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top