Glare Monsters! (2 Viewers)

[Binocollector]

AK prisms used to have more advantages over an SP, but with phase coatings binocular manufacturers have closed the gap.

AK-prisms need phase-coatings, too. I guess you mean the improvement of the mirror coatings from silver to dielectric coatings that closed the gap.

 

[[email protected]]

Glare, rolling ball, CA etc. etc. It is all a personal thing. Some see it, some don't. Some are troubled by glare, rolling ball, CA etc. etc., whilst some are not bothered about it.
Just because someone posts a lot on these forums about binoculars doesn't necessarily mean that person has a clue what they are talking about. I have personally owned binoculars that I have been pleased about, only to hear from others about the supposed faults from others who look through my binocs. Yet I don't see these so-called faults, because as I say it is a personal thing.
Think some people on BirdForum could do better than sit by their laptop writing page upon page about their opinion about a certain brand / model. Especially when after a while they change binocs for whatever reason (perhaps influenced by some opinions on these pages?).
Just grab your binoculars and get out in the field and enjoy life. This is BIRDforum, not BINOCforum - birds are more important than material possesions like optics. 😜 🔭 🔭👀🦆🦆🦆

Most of binocular choice is just really personal preference, but it is still fun to discuss binoculars!

 

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AK-prisms need phase-coatings, too. I guess you mean the improvement of the mirror coatings from silver to dielectric coatings that closed the gap.

Correct. Thanks!

 

[Patudo]

Just grab your binoculars and get out in the field and enjoy life. This is BIRDforum, not BINOCforum - birds are more important than material possesions like optics.

Sage advice which, unfortunately, is likely to go unheeded. This subforum, possibly because it's one of only a handful of places where binoculars are discussed in detail, has a very different subset of posters to the others. Very few ever post on the other subforums, and only a handful are actual birders (something that those who come here seeking advice on birding binoculars should probably be mindful of).

NB. What I don't fully understand is why certain individuals who make their disdain for birders pretty clear still find it worthwhile to hang around here, rather than other internet locations that better match their preferred activities - and indeed politics.

As for your last observation, I'm reminded of an observation Ken Rockwell made some years ago:

Male birders, as opposed to birdwatchers, are more interested in their scopes and binoculars than the birds. It's the same as comparing audiophiles to music lovers: the audiophiles are more interested in their record players than the music.

Binoculars have the same problem that cameras do: there are some people who spend all day talking about them on the internet to the same fanatical level that audiophiles go on about their record players, but these people never take them out and use them.

I'm not sure if that's true of every male birder, as those who post in the other subforums have their own, non-optics related, but equally odd, obsessions. But this subforum definitely attracts a good few of the type KR speaks of.

 

[Binocollector]

Not sure, who this quote is even supposed to mean but it's not appreciated. I use all my binoculars, even if some think, when someone likes to talk about binoculars, he doesn't use them. Honestly, this right here is the first hobby forum where I have read such nonsense. In every other forum, people are aware that talkin about stuff is exactly what a forum is for. But it doesn't imply that one doesn't use the stuff he likes to talk about.
But I rarely saw another forum where members feel the constant need to belittle, ridicule and bully each other. Sad, really. There are a lot of knowledgeable people around.
Also -- nobody here feels disdain towards birders. I love watching birds, I just never got into identifying them. Just as I love watching stars and still don't know much about Messier-objects.

BTW, just in case, @Patudo , that question was honest -- guess how many purely binocular oriented forums there are on the WWW.

 

[Ted Y.]

Male birders are human males.

It is not possible to discuss in this forum about football (soccer), nor about football (American football), hockey, nor cars, guns (this is for hunters and Americans), etc, etc. (and it is very OK as such)
Binoculars will do.

But I rarely saw another forum where members feel the constant need to belittle, ridicule and bully each other.

I agree. It seems it is a high concentration of unpleasant alpha males or pretending ones.
Disregarding, this is a great bird forum.

 

[Ted Y.]

Also -- nobody here feels disdain towards birders.

 

[Paultricounty]

Male birders are human males.

My pronouns , he , him 😁.

It is not possible to discuss in this forum about football (soccer), nor about football (American football), hockey, nor cars, guns (this is for hunters and Americans), etc, etc. (and it is very OK as such)
Binoculars will do.

Guilty.

I agree. It seems it is a high concentration of unpleasant alpha males or pretending ones.
Disregarding, this is a great bird forum.

I resemble that remark 😉🙏🏼.

 

[CharleyBird]

The real problem is the biased binocular bashing which started on page one.

Looking back at the now carefully edited italicized posts, my favourite missing bit is denco saying:
"Once you get used to a good 8x56, it is hard to go back to the mediocre view of a smaller glass."

Maybe, but physiotherapists are expensive
😉

 

[Hermann]

This subforum, possibly because it's one of only a handful of places where binoculars are discussed in detail, has a very different subset of posters to the others. Very few ever post on the other subforums, and only a handful are actual birders (something that those who come here seeking advice on birding binoculars should probably be mindful of).

True. There are nowadays plenty of people on this forum who know little (or nothing) about birds and birding and may not even want to know. Birding seems to have fallen by the wayside, and this shows in many of the threads by now.

The end result is that this subforum is in large parts not a forum for birders anymore, it's more a kind of meeting place for the "Binocular Appreciation Society".

Some people are quite obviously happy with the way things are going, others may have quietly dropped out and given up on the forum as a lost cause.

NB. What I don't fully understand is why certain individuals who make their disdain for birders pretty clear still find it worthwhile to hang around here, rather than other internet locations that better match their preferred activities - and indeed politics.

Strongly seconded.

Hermann

 

[Northman]

I would add, on a sub-forum of a Birdforum dealing with binoculars, I would expect more talk about binoculars, then birds.

Just like on spotting scope sub-forum, of Bird forum.


Just like some others, I dont identify birds or try to hunt rare ones. I like to find birds and just observe them. For example, we have 20-30 small birds in our garden daily. They spend most of their time in a big tree, darting down to the bird feeder, trying to escape the crows, magpies and occasional hawk or peregrin who zoomes past here.

Just watching them, I can see their interactions. The the look of dissapointment on their beaks when they lose their food down the branches, or when a fluffy chick, loses his grip and tumbles down a branch or two, and when they grom themselves.


My 8x56 SLC is a super comfortable binocular, used with tripod, where I just hover my eyes in front of the occulars and lets me relax my eyes on said birds. No critical eye position, no need for correct tube setting, and no glare we have found out now

And bright… Even though it maybe theoretically should not, but it is.

 

[Paultricounty]

True. There are nowadays plenty of people on this forum who know little (or nothing) about birds and birding and may not even want to know. Birding seems to have fallen by the wayside, and this shows in many of the threads by now.

The end result is that this subforum is in large parts not a forum for birders anymore, it's more a kind of meeting place for the "Binocular Appreciation Society".

Some people are quite obviously happy with the way things are going, others may have quietly dropped out and given up on the forum as a lost cause.

Strongly seconded.

Hermann

What would you suggest ? Should we add a specific sub forum just for the discussion of binoculars for birding? Would the discussion stay on track anymore than any other sub forum? We might be surprised that it’s a lot smaller than the current binoculars (equipment) sub forum. I think a lot of people come this forum to learn about about binoculars to help get started with their birding or to help them learn about what equipment is good to start with or to move to the next level optic. I guess or assume that a dedicated binoculars for birding sub forum would frown upon technical equipment information discussion. I’m trying to envision how the discussions would go.

 

[[email protected]]

I would add, on a sub-forum of a Birdforum dealing with binoculars, I would expect more talk about binoculars, then birds.

Just like on spotting scope sub-forum, of Bird forum.


Just like some others, I dont identify birds or try to hunt rare ones. I like to find birds and just observe them. For example, we have 20-30 small birds in our garden daily. They spend most of their time in a big tree, darting down to the bird feeder, trying to escape the crows, magpies and occasional hawk or peregrin who zoomes past here.

Just watching them, I can see their interactions. The the look of dissapointment on their beaks when they lose their food down the branches, or when a fluffy chick, loses his grip and tumbles down a branch or two, and when they grom themselves.


My 8x56 SLC is a super comfortable binocular, used with tripod, where I just hover my eyes in front of the occulars and lets me relax my eyes on said birds. No critical eye position, no need for correct tube setting, and no glare we have found out now

And bright… Even though it maybe theoretically should not, but it is.

A lot of times that is the most enjoyable way to bird, just watching a tree or feeder in your own yard. You can sit in a comfortable chair with a tripod and just observe them for long periods of time, and then go have a snack or a beer. I enjoy just watching squirrels interacting in the trees. The bigger aperture binoculars are super comfortable on a tripod if you don't have to carry them around, and they are without a doubt bright.

 

[[email protected]]

The real problem is the biased binocular bashing which started on page one.

Looking back at the now carefully edited italicized posts, my favourite missing bit is denco saying:
"Once you get used to a good 8x56, it is hard to go back to the mediocre view of a smaller glass."

Maybe, but physiotherapists are expensive
😉

The mediocre was a little harsh. But after comparing my Habicht 8x30 and Nikon 8x32 SE and then going to an 8x56, it surprised me that the view through the 8x56 was that much more enjoyable and just better. The view through the Habicht and Nikon were actually very good, but the 8x56 was just well better.

 

[Ted Y.]

About the binocular subforum.
I will observe (some of) the discussions about binoculars are well appreciated by people in other forums. It is easy to find references to BF on CN or RS. Also, google a binocular and BF will have something about, and the comments have a better quality then the lots of websites. In other words, BF is a reference. The quality is accompanied by quantity, true.

 

[[email protected]]

I really like the SLC 8x56 for its glare resistance, but I have heard the SLC 10x56 was very nice also, but since I just spent $2000 on the 8x56 SLC and the SLC 10x56 doesn't seem to be discounted at all, probably because hunters like them, so you pretty much have to pay the full retail of $2500, so I decided to try a cheaper alternative.

I picked up a LNIB Zeiss Conquest HD 10x56 on eBay for $800 which is a 1/3 the costs of the SLC, so I thought I would try it. I don't think the edges will be as sharp nor do I think it will control CA as well as the SLC 10x56, but it does have a bigger FOV, and it got a pretty positive review on Scopeviews.

Zeiss Conquest HD's in general are pretty glare resistant, so I am thinking the big 8x56 should be pretty good. I get it in a couple of days, so we will see if it is glare resistant or glare prone.

Zeiss 10x56 Conquest HD Review

www.scopeviews.co.uk

 

[Paultricounty]

I really like the SLC 8x56 for its glare resistance, but I have heard the SLC 10x56 was very nice also, but since I just spent $2000 on the 8x56 SLC and the SLC 10x56 doesn't seem to be discounted at all, probably because hunters like them, so you pretty much have to pay the full retail of $2500, so I decided to try a cheaper alternative.

I picked up a LNIB Zeiss Conquest HD 10x56 on eBay for $800 which is a 1/3 the costs of the SLC, so I thought I would try it. I don't think the edges will be as sharp nor do I think it will control CA as well as the SLC 10x56, but it does have a bigger FOV, and it got a pretty positive review on Scopeviews.

Zeiss Conquest HD's in general are pretty glare resistant, so I am thinking the big 8x56 should be pretty good. I get it in a couple of days, so we will see if it is glare resistant or glare prone.

Zeiss 10x56 Conquest HD Review

www.scopeviews.co.uk

Why did you get the Zeiss 10x56? I’d would've thought the 8x would be the way to compare.

 

[GrampaTom]

What would you suggest ? Should we add a specific sub forum just for the discussion of binoculars for birding? Would the discussion stay on track anymore than any other sub forum? We might be surprised that it’s a lot smaller than the current binoculars (equipment) sub forum. I think a lot of people come this forum to learn about about binoculars to help get started with their birding or to help them learn about what equipment is good to start with or to move to the next level optic. I guess or assume that a dedicated binoculars for birding sub forum would frown upon technical equipment information discussion. I’m trying to envision how the discussions would go.

To start with, how about some personal context. We argue incessantly over opinions, preferences, with the rhetoric indeed getting personal and never stop to say "Well, This is who I am, this is my size, age, health/fitness situation." OR, God forbid, "This is my real world relevant work experience. I actually know something about how this works." OR "I watch birds from my house/porch in the bushes of the yard and on my feeders." OR "Im a hiker, I bird while moving about through nature." OR "I bird in dense forests." OR "I bird out over open water terrain." OR, "I do adventure travel, safaris in exotic places." Im sure theres better ways to say these sorts of things. Thats up to each of us when we write a comment. With context much of the heat over 8x vs 10x or 7° vs 8° stuff goes away. It becomes, "Oh! I see now. I get it, thats different from what I do."

 

[Hermann]

What would you suggest ? Should we add a specific sub forum just for the discussion of binoculars for birding? Would the discussion stay on track anymore than any other sub forum?

Good questions. I don't know the answers. Just asking people to take into account that this forum is a subforum of a birdwatching forum probably won't work.

We might be surprised that it’s a lot smaller than the current binoculars (equipment) sub forum.

It would certainly be smaller than the current forum. Just look at the threads, there are plenty that are plainly not about using binoculars and the properties they should have (shouldn't have) for birdwatching, how they work in the field and so on. To my mind they are off-topic here.

I think a lot of people come this forum to learn about about binoculars to help get started with their birding or to help them learn about what equipment is good to start with or to move to the next level optic.

Right, and that's how it should be. Mind you, I sometimes think some of the "advice" given here is more based on hearsay or some impressions gained at a quick visit to a store rather than actual experience in the field. And quite a few "reviews" beginners may read here probably aren't based on solid experience either.

I guess or assume that a dedicated binoculars for birding sub forum would frown upon technical equipment information discussion. I’m trying to envision how the discussions would go.

There would of course still be technical discussions - but with more focus on what the technical details discussed actually mean in the field. In real life. In fact, if you go back 10 years or so there were probably more technical discussions than today.

Hermann

 

[[email protected]]

To start with, how about some personal context. We argue incessantly over opinions, preferences, with the rhetoric indeed getting personal and never stop to say "Well, This is who I am, this is my size, age, health/fitness situation." OR, God forbid, "This is my real world relevant work experience. I actually know something about how this works." OR "I watch birds from my house/porch in the bushes of the yard and on my feeders." OR "Im a hiker, I bird while moving about through nature." OR "I bird in dense forests." OR "I bird out over open water terrain." OR, "I do adventure travel, safaris in exotic places." Im sure theres better ways to say these sorts of things. Thats up to each of us when we write a comment. With context much of the heat over 8x vs 10x or 7° vs 8° stuff goes away. It becomes, "Oh! I see now. I get it, thats different from what I do."

Good point! A lot of binocular choice depends on how you use them.